[인터뷰 번역] Kanye West와 라디오 호스트 Charlamagne tha God
 
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2020-08-06 15:26:20

 

*대본 작성을 목적으로 진행되어  인터뷰 영상과 100% 일치하지 않습니다.

*The interview has been simplified for documentation purposes.


샬라메인  가드요즘 여기저기서 찍힌 사진들을 많이 봤어요요즘 어떻게 지내시는지  물어볼 수가 없네요

I’ve seen a lot of pictures of you, lately, out and about. You know, so the first question is, how are you?


칸예 웨스트: 기분 좋습니다. 

I’m feeling good.


샬라메인왜냐면 뉴스에서  마지막 소식은 칸예 웨스트가 자아분열에 시달리고 있다는 내용이었거든요지금은 심리적으로 어떠신가요?

’Cause the last time, I think, people heard about you in the news was Kanye West was having a mental breakdown, so mentally, where are you?


칸예: 음, 지금보다 더 강했던 적은 없는 것 같아요. 분열이라기보다는 돌파를 했다고 말하고 싶네요. 

Um, I think I'm in a stronger place than I ever ... than I ever was after the- the breakdown or I like to say the breakthrough.


샬라메인 심리적 분열의 원인이 뭐라고 생각하세요

What do you think, uh, caused the mental breakdown?


칸예: 두려움, 스트레스, 통제, 그리고 마치 체스 조각처럼 조정되는 기분. 제가 걱정할 필요 없을 만큼 인정받아야 된다는 것에 대한 스트레스, 경쟁심리, 그리고 수많은 것들과 항상 경쟁해야 된다는 것. 시간 그리고 나이와 하는 레이스와 인기를 얻기 위한 경쟁. 예를 들면 칼리드의 노래, 드레이크의 노래가 라디오에 끊임없이 나오고 있는데 Saint Pablo  나온다. 원인이 될 만한 것들만 이 인터뷰 내내 얘기할 수 있어요.  

Fear, stress, control, being controlled, manipulation, like being a pawn in a chess piece of life. Stressing things that- that create like validation that I didn't need to worry about as much and, uh, you know, that just ... it's the concept of competition and being in competition with so many, you know, elements at one time. On a race against time, your age, all your ... you getting old, race against popularity on the radio, Khalid got this song, Drake got this song on the radio it's playing to death. Saint Pablo ain't playing. Uh, I could do ... I mean, I could take the whole interview talking about-

 

[Saint Pablo]: 

 

샬라메인당신은 항상 흐름을 주도하는 사람이었는데 흐름을 따르고 있다는  신기하네요어떠한 흐름의 일부분이 아니었을 때는 속상하셨을  같아요

Yeah, yeah. No, it's interesting though, 'cause you've been the guy that has always created a flow, not gone with the flow. So, it seems like you were a little upset that you weren't a part of the flow.


칸예: 이상했죠. Saint Pablo를 발매했을 때 문화적 영향은 대단했지만 저는 계속해서 다른 방식의 인정을 받고 싶었어요. 다른 성과도 있고 돈이 되는 방법도 여러 가지니까 라디오에 많이 안 나온다는 건 중요하지 않았죠. 물론 이 노래가 클럽에서도 많이 나오고 라디오에서 1위도 했었지만, 열심히 만든 결과물이 그저 졸업식처럼 다른 노래들과 무더기로 나오는 건 별 의미 없었어요. 그리고 테일러 스위프트 이후로 라디오의 중요성이 아예 달라졌어요. 누가 권력을 갖고 있는지도 복잡해졌고, 큰 레이블과 계약한 아티스트라면 유명할수록 라디오에 나오고 싶어 한 거 같아요. 유명한 사람이 되고 싶고, 사람들이 자기 음악을 좋아해 줬으면 좋겠고, 세계 최고 아티스트들이 본인 공연에 오고, 모든 사람들이 스냅챗에 공연 영상을 올리면서 굿즈를 사게 하고 싶다면 라디오를 완전한 형태로 사용해야 하죠. 하지만 저는 그걸 이해하지 못했어요, 왜냐면 끝에는 결국 누군가가 통제하고 있는 거고, 라디오도 그저 많은 요소 중에 하나 일뿐이니까요.

 와이프가 파리에서 사건이 하나 터졌었어요그때  많은 요소들 가운데에서 속수무책이 되었었고, ‘내가   있는  있을까?’라는 기분이 많이 들었던  같아요저는 그녀를 지키려고 파리에 갔었어요물리적으로 지켜주는  아니라 파리에 혼자 있으니 보기 좋게 옆에 있어주고 싶었죠다른 사람과 비교되지 않고 주목을 받을  있도록하지만 그녀가 강도를 당했고 도둑들은 제가 떠날 때까지 기다리면서 오랜 시간 철저히 계획해왔다고 들었어요그래서 파리에 그녀가 혼자 도착했을 , “지금이 기회야라고 했을 거예요하지만  다음날 제가 갔고, “아직 아니야 기다려야 라고 했겠죠그리고 며칠 후에 제가 먼저 파리를 떠났고공연 준비를 하고 있는 도중 아내가 강도를 당했다고 전해 들었어요 당시에는 전체적인 내용을 몰랐어요하지만  사건이 일어나기   전에 제가 패션쇼를 했었는데제가 45분 늦게 도착하니 르브론처럼 됐었죠.

It was weird. I was looking at, you know, we're doing Saint Pablo, and the cultural impact is incredible, but I'm looking for other forms of validation. When there's other frequencies and other currencies, so just because it's not playing on the radio. Of course, we had, you know, farther stretches in the club on the radio a bit, like it went to number one. Uh, but you know, to put that same amount, if not work, into a piece of work, and then you used to it coming out like graduation where everything is everything, you know, it's frustrating. And, really, ever since the Taylor Swift moment, it just had never been the same, the connection with radio. It's like whatever powers that be, it was much harder after that. So, if you're an artist, and you sign to a major label you want to be on the radio, especially if you popular, if you popping, you know. If you one of the most famous people on the planet, and people love your music, and all the best artists in the world are coming to your concert, and all friends is like, you know, Snapchatting themselves at the shows, and you selling merch out like that. It seems like, okay, radio should just be intact, and it might be just a piece of information that I was missing that wasn't being expressed to me that I didn't understand. 'Cause at the end of the day, someone's controlling it, and I didn't understand it. But, the radio con- the radio element was just one of the factors.

There's like, uh, you know, the situation with my wife in Paris, and all of the elements of, like, you feeling like, you know, helpless. You feeling like what can you do? I like, went to Paris on that trip to protect her, but not protect her, you know, uh, physically, but to go and just help her with her looks 'cause she's in Paris. So, I'm like, "Let me put my eye on it personally” while she's out in Paris, and make sure she busts these niggas ass, you know, just so, like get fly. And, uh, one of the things that she said that she heard is that they were coming to rob her, and they had to wait 'til I had left. And that the people had been strategizing and scheming on that for a long time, so when she probably got to Paris by herself, they were like, "Okay, this is our chance." Next thing you know, I get off on the flight the next day. And, they were like, "Oh okay, we gotta, like, fall back." And then, you know, when I left a couple days later, I'm on stage and I hear that, uh, my boy comes up to me and says, "You know, your, uh, your wife was robbed." At that point, I didn't know the whole element, or the whole story of what was happening. Previous to that, you know, just one week before that or two weeks before that, I'd done a fashion show. Um, and I was 45 minutes late, and they Lebron'd me, bro, like remember when Lebron went to-


 

샬라메인르브론처럼 됐다는  무슨 뜻인가요?

What’s that mean?


칸예: 르브론이 마이애미에 갔을 때처럼요. 유니폼을 태우면서 그를 거의 죽일 기세였잖아요. 관중 속에 유명한 사람들도 많았고 라이브 스트리밍도 하면서 혁신을 일으키고 있었는데 갑자기 45분 늦으니 등을 돌렸죠. 패션 커뮤니티가 마치 "네가 다른 사람들을 밟고 일어나면서 여기까지 온 것도 알고 어떤 식으로 일에 접근하는지도 아는데 여기 규칙을 어기면 널 털어낼 거야”라고 하는 것 같았어요. 그리고 저는 아티스트이기 때문에 이 일에 영향을 받을 수밖에 없었죠, 감정적으로도 아내의 강도 사건부터 시작해서 약 없이는 버틸 수 없게 만들었어요. 그리고 공연을 일주일에 4번씩 한다는 것만으로도 지치는 일이죠.

Like, when Lebron went to Miami? And, they just killed him, and burned his like jersey and all that. Everybody in the audience, whoever you- you want to name and shit, you know, streaming live all this, like a breakthrough, and soon as I was 45 minutes late, I felt it was the fashion community getting the right to say nigger without saying it. To be like, "Yo, we know you come through stepping on necks and all that, and what you do in your approaches things and stuff, but if you get out of line, boy, we gonna roast you.” And, it affected me because I'm an artist, and it affected me emotionally, like, emotionally it's all these things were like almost set up to put me on meds, to break me down, the robbery, like, I don't ... You know, I don't know where that came from. The, you know, was that a bigger plan, a bigger set up, you know, also just being on stage four times a night. I mean, four times a week, you know, you get exhausted up there.


샬라메인심리적으로감정적으로육체적으로  지쳐있으셨네요

So, you was mentally exhausted, emotionally exhausted, physically exhausted, everything?


칸예: 네, 그렇죠. 

Yeah, fine, yeah.


샬라메인상담도 다니셨나요 얘기가 많았을  같은데그리고 많은 사람들이 고민 상담을   당신을 찾을  같은데당신은 어디에 도움을 요청해요상담을 다니거나 뭐든 했을  같은데.

Did you go to therapy at all? 'Cause I feel like this is a lot to unpack. And, I'm sure you're the go to guy for a lot of people, so it's like who does the go to guy go to? So, I'm sure you have to go to some therapy or something.


칸예: 아니요, 그냥 세상으로부터 치료를 받고 제가 대화를 나누는 사람 모두 상담사가 되어줬죠. 제 상황을 설명하고, 다른 사람의 입장을 들어보면서. 가끔 “내가 Ye랑 이런 대화를 할 줄 몰랐다”라고 하는 사람들도 있었지만, 사실 주변 사람들이 저에 대해 제일 많이 아는 사람들이니까 그들을 상담사로 생각했죠. 심리 상담사는 사실 Ye가 누군지 벼락치기로 공부하고 조언을 주는 거잖아요. 상담사들이 나쁘다는 게 아니라 저는 개인적으로 주변 사람들, 가족과 친구들과 대화하는 걸 더 좋아해요, 45분씩 전화 통화를 하면서 이런저런 얘기를 하는 것도. 제 문제들에 대해 얘기하고 그들의 에너지를 쓰는 거니까 약간 이기적인 걸 수도 있겠네요. 

Nah, I used the world as my therapy, as my therapist, anyone I talk to is my therapist. I will pull them into the conversation of what I'm feeling at that point, and get their perspective. Sometimes they be like, "Damn, I'm talking to Ye, I'm not expecting to talk about this." I'll use it ... I'll, you know, I'll talk through things. Anybody that I'm around, and I put that as advice to people, it's like use people around you as your therapist 'cause they probably know more about you. Like, a therapist does a crash course in Ye, and comes and is like wanting to give you, you know, some advice. And, I'm not saying that the therapists are bad, I'm just saying that I like just talking to acquaintance, friends, family. And, you know, I keep them on the phone for 45 minutes at a time talking through things. It's like, it's kinda narcissistic, you know? Uh, talking about my problems, using their energy.


샬라메인심리적으로 좋은 위치에 계신  같네요거기까지 어떻게 가셨어요그저 사람들과 대화하면서아니면 음악을 통해서혹은 트위터를 이용해서여러 방식들을 통해서 생각을 내뱉는  도움이 되는 건가요?

Well, when it comes to, I guess, you know, mental health so to speak, you seem to be in a good space mentally. So, how did you get there? You just talked through it with people? Or, was it music or we see you returning to Twitter now? Is just getting these thoughts out therapeutic for you?


칸예: 네, 하지만 트위터에 올리는 글들은 제 치료 목적으로 하는 건 아니에요. 그냥 본질적인 생각들과 기분에 대해 표현하고, 그 플랫폼을 사용해서 제가 병원을 다니면서부터 배운 것들을 공유하고 싶었어요.

Yeah, but the thoughts that I'm getting out on Twitter right now are not, you know, I think everything is therapeutic, but I'm not doing it as a form of personal therapy. It's just an innate feeling, I just want to express. I decided to use this platform to express some breakthroughs that I've had since going to the hospital.


샬라메인어떤 것들이 있나요환영받지 못하는 공간에 있을 때마다 예전 일들이 생각나나요?

Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah. Well, what are some of those breakthroughs? It's like, do you feel like whenever you're in spaces where you're tolerated as opposed to celebrated, they remind you of that?


칸예: 네, 항상 생각나죠. 하지만 더 이상 저한테 의미 없는 것들이에요, 왜냐면 이미 제가 이겨낸 것들이니까요. 에르메스 버킨백에 비교하자면, 그 위치에 있다면 스크래치가 많을수록 가치가 높은 거예요. 그 모든 일들이 지금의 저를 만들어줬고, 바꾸고 싶은 건 없어요. 치료를 받고 쉬는 동안 “샬레 메인과 제일 먼저 얘기하고 싶다”라고 생각했어요. 병원에 다니고 분열, 아니 돌파를 하는 과정 속에 믿기지 않을 만큼 대단한 감정들도 느꼈거든요.

Oh, yeah, you get reminded all the time. But, uh, the reminders don't mean nothing to me anymore 'cause I've broken it. You know, this is ... this is Hermes level of existence at this point, you know, you look at a Birkin bag, the way it's made, the more scratches on it, the more value it has. You know, so all those things, those pieces of the story have created who I am today, and I wouldn't turn down anything. Like, I would be thinking about you as I was recovering and I always thought, "Ima go and talk to Charlemagne first." And, I just wanted to say, like, there was elements about going to the hospital, and having a breakdown or a breakthrough that was fire. It was incredible, the feeling was incredible-


샬라메인 설명해 주세요

Explain.


칸예: Saint Pablo “유체이탈적인 경험을   있도록 기도하고 있어사람들이  빛을   있게단순한 랩이 아니라는 것을   있게라는 가사가 있어요패션쇼에 관련된 조금 다른 얘기를 먼저 하고 싶은데 이름을 흑과 백으로 나누고 싶지 않아요현대화하고 싶지만인종차별에 대한 얘기를 계속하고 싶어요왜냐면 역사 속에는 물론 현재에도 존재하는 거고 미래에 깨야 하는 거니까요백인 출판사에  이름이 나오면  “래퍼라는 단어를 쓰더라고요그리고  단어는 항상 부정적인 표현으로 쓰이죠하워드 휴즈피카소혹은 아인슈타인의 이름을 꺼낼 때와는 아주 다른 느낌이에요.

Well, on the song Saint Pablo, I said, "I'm praying an out of body experience will happen, so people can see my light, and know it's not just rapping.” You have the context of rap, um, here go ... Oh, here go one related, I want to talk about rap, here go one related to what I was saying about the fashion show. So, if my name pops up in a publication, uh, and, you know, today I don't wanna use white, black, the black [inaudible] all too much about. I want to modernize, but I want to speak about the concept of racism as something that is something we're in, it's something of the past, it's something we're breaking the future. So, I'd say this, you know, if it's a white publication, if they use the word "rapper," they not saying that in a complimentary way. They trying to say that to not classify it in a Howard Hughes, Picasso, you know, Einstein way.


샬라메인그냥 아티스트라고 표현해야겠네요

They should just say artist.


칸예: 네, 아티스트 혹은 그냥 사람, 그냥 제가 누군지 얘기했으면 좋겠어요. 이름을 말하든지, 그냥 Ye라고 하던지. 왜냐면 그 이름에서부터 오는 반응은 받아들여야 하는 거니까. 그리고 무슨 일이 있었는지 팩트만 적어놨으면 좋겠어요, 과장하는 거 없이. “래퍼”라는 표현을 쓸 때는 항상 다른 방향으로 흘러가는 이야기들이 따라와요. 제 영향력을 무시하고 제가 하는 이야기들의 가치를 떨어트리면서, 좋은 뉴스거리가 생기면 항상 이상한 방식으로 꼬아서 뭐든지 미친 짓이라고 표현하죠. 미쳤다는 단어에 따라오는 부정적인 면들을 없애고 싶고 정신건강에 대한 선입견을 바꾸고 싶지만 아직 먼 거 같네요.

Yeah, artist or just person or something, just who I am. Say my name in whatever, just say my first name. Say half of my first name, just say Ye. And, whatever someone takes from that then cool, and then say what happened, and just leave it there, don't put no extra sauce on it. So, when they put "the rapper," and then they'll say something I'll say that's, like, absolutely inspired, but if they put it in the ... something inspired in the wrong context, it'll come off as, uh, I don't want to say crazy, 'cause I also want to change the stigma of crazy, and I want to change the stigma of mental health period. And, I have not done no extra study on it. We at the beginning of it. We at the beginning of the conversation, but best believe ima take the stigma of the word crazy. Um, but let's just say for now people will take something that's enlightened, put it in a different context, and then call it crazy. To try to diminish the impact and the value of what I'm actually saying.


샬라메인저는 매주 금요일마다 3시가 되면 상담을 가요왜냐면 가끔 라이온 킹에 나오는 라피키가   같은 기분이 들잖아요라피키 아세요라피키는 심바가 어디서 왔는지누구인지어떤 애인지 정확히 알고 있었지만 다들 “라피키 미쳤어가까이하면  라고 했죠근데 라피키는 거기에 맞서서 “아니미친  너야너는 네가 누군지도  모르잖아  안을 들여다봐봐네가 어디서 왔는지 내가 정확히 알려줄게라고 해요 스토리처럼 당신은 스스로가 칸예 웨스트라는  잊고 있는  같아요너무나도 많은 사람들이 당신의 가치를 깎아내리려고 했기 때문에 말이에요.

Yeah, I mean, um, that's why I say, I got to therapy every Friday at three o’clock. 'Cause, you know, sometimes you feel like Rafiki in the Lion King- Remember Rafiki? Rafiki knew exactly what Simba came from, he knew exactly who Simba was, and what Simba was about, but everybody would say, "Yo, Rafiki is crazy. Stay away from him." And one day, Rafiki took that staff, and hit Simba over the head, and said, "No, you're crazy 'cause you don't even know who you are. Look in this lake, and let me show you where you come from." I think you might have forgotten that you're Kanye West. 'Cause so many people was trying to re- make you believe that you were lesser than who you truly are.


칸예: 맞아요, 자기를 진심으로 대해 주지 않는 사람들과 함께하다 보면 스스로도 자신이 누구인지 까먹게 돼있어요. 비슷한 얘기를 글로 써놓은 적이 있는데, 지금 당장 트위터에 올리고 싶네요.

Oh, yeah. If you hang around people who act like you aren't who you are, then you'll forget who you are. And, I got a doper way ... I've writ ... I've written it down, and- Yeah, tweet, you know, we should just tweet while we're [inaudible]. Just tweet that right now, and shit.


샬라메인트위터 얘기가 나와서 말인데다시 트위터에 돌아온 기분이 어떠세요칸예 웨스트에게 가장 힘든 일은 조용히 있는  같은데, 1 가까이 조용했었어요

Speaking of Twitter- Uh, you know, how does that feel coming back to Twitter, 'cause I would think that the hardest thing for Kanye West is to be quiet. You was quiet for like a year.


칸예: 별로 할 말이 없었어요. 배울 것도 많았고요. 근데 이제는 제 목소리를 높이는 거에 대한 중요성을 깨달은 것 같아요, 왜냐면 5년 뒤에, 10년 뒤에는 지금보다 경험이 훨씬 많이 쌓여있을 테니까요. 그때는 지금보다 더 좋은 곳에 있겠죠. 그 과정 속에 실수도 있을 테고 제가 대화하는 방식에 문제점들도 있을 테지만, 우리 모두 다 인간이기 때문에 흠 하나씩은 있잖아요. 미디어 활용법에 대해 배운 적도 없고 항상 맞는 말만 한다는 것도 아니에요. 그저 사랑에 의해서 나오는 말들을 그대로 전할 뿐이에요.

I didn't have a lot to say. I had, uh, a lot to learn. And, you know, right now, you'll document where I'm at, I felt the need to speak at this point, you know, when you look up at five years from now, or 10 years from now, I'll have more experience. I'll be in a better place than I was today. You know, there'll be mistakes, there'll be flaws in the way I communicate today 'cause we're human beings, we're flawed. I'm not media trained, I'm not studied in that. I'm not trying to say the right thing, I'm just saying exactly what I feel out of love.


[트위터 링크]: 

 | https://twitter.com/…

 

샬라메인칸예 웨스트가 무언가를 배워야겠다고 느낀 적은 언젠가요칸예는 음악에서 패션까지 모든 것을 아는 사람 같았는데신기하네요마지막으로 뭔가를 배워야겠다고 느낀  언제예요?

Yeah. When was the last time Kanye West felt like he had something to learn? 'Cause that's interesting to hear you say, 'cause, you know, Kanye's the guy who seems to know everything, like to know what's going on as far as music, fashion. Like, when was the last time Kanye felt like he had something to learn?


칸예: 매일, 매일 뭔가를 배우려고 노력하고 겁도 나요. 하지만 용감하게 제가 두려워하는 것들을 이겨내려고 해요, 그런 속담도 있잖아요? ‘슬기로운 사람은 아는 게 없다’라는. 

Everyday, every day I'm trying to learn something, and everyday I get, you know, I get afraid, I'm fearful of things. And, I just use bravery to overcome what I'm fearful of. I mean, the quote ... What's the quote people always say? The wise man knows he knows nothing.


샬라메인네네

Yeah, yeah, yeah.


칸예: 지금도 배우고 있고 그 과정에서 느낀 것들을 표현하고 있는 중이에요. 제가 하는 말들이 당신에게 영향을 준다면 좋고, 아니면 마는 거죠. 저는 그저 항상 정보에 목말라있고, 남들의 인정보다는 정보가 필요하다고 생각해요, 돈보다도 더. 예를 들자면, 제가 물고기를 잡는 방법을 배운다면 평생 제 가족을 먹여살릴 수 있잖아요. 그래서 끊임없이 정보를 쫓고 있어요.

I’m learning, and now I'm expressing some things that I felt. And, if they mean something to you at this time, then great, if not then, you know, don't use them. My issue it just came down to information. I'm super hungry for information, I need information more than I need validation, more than I need finance. If I learn how to fish, then I can feed my family forever. So, I'm just constantly looking for the information, how do I set up a factory?


샬라메인그럼 제이도 당신에게 정보 대신 돈만 던져준다고 생각했나요? 4:44 가사 중에 “ 칸예에게 2천만 불을 줬는데 걔는 나에게 20분짜리 공연을 줬어무슨 생각인 거야?”라는 내용이 있잖아요.

So, you feel like Jay was tossing you money as opposed to giving you the information? 'Cause, you know, the infamous line on 4:44 is, you know, "I gave Kanye 20 mil without thinking. He gave me 20 minutes on stage, you know, what was he thinking?"


칸예: 그가 저에게 돈을 줬다는 거 자체가 저를 불편하게 해요, 왜냐면 그 돈은 제이가 라이브 네이션에서 받은 돈이었거든요. 그 당시에 라이브 네이션에서 저를 관리해 주고 있었고, 투어를 잡아주는 건 당연한 일이었어요. 투어에서 나온 돈이었는데, 그 돈이 그한테서 나왔다고 알려진 이후에 제가 빚을 진 것 같은 기분이었죠. 저는 의리 있고 감성적인 아티스트예요. 그저 사랑으로 대하고, 조종당할 필요 없는 사람이에요, 그냥 영감과 정보를 받으면서 Ye로 살아가야 해요. 근데 아무 정보도 없이 “난 너한테 이거 줬잖아”라는 입장만 있었어요. 근데 제이도 그럴 필요 없었는데 좋은 일을 해준 거라고 믿어요.

That concept that you gave me, that he gave me the money that's what frustrated me, because actually it ... the money was he got it from Live Nation. Live Nation was managing me at the time, that's something normal that someone would give someone a touring deal. It was a touring deal, but the fact that it was worded that it came from him, I'm a very loyal, emotional, artist person, you know. That made me feel like I owed more than just the money itself for the fact that it came from him. You know, it just put me under a bit more of a kinda controlled situation. I'm only acting out of love, I don't need to be controlled, I just need to be inspired and informed, and I can be the best Ye in that way. But, if I have the, "I gave you this," on it, and I don't have the full information of how it happened. Now, that said, I think there was some love in that on Jay's part, because he did have to cosign for it when the Live Nation's and these different companies wouldn't cosign for me.


[4:44 수록곡 "Kill Jay Z"]: 

 

샬라메인그렇군요.

Gotcha.


칸예: 좋은 일을 하고도 그 방식이 잘못돼서 일이 흐트러지는 경우들이 있잖아요, 이 해프닝도 그런 것 같아요. 제이도 좋은 일을 한 거지만, 제가 그거에 대한 정보를 바로 받지 못했다는 게 잘못됐죠. 왜냐면 저는 할리우드라는 곳에 있고 어머니도 돌아가신 이후에 누구를 믿어야 할지 모르겠어요. 아무도 믿지 못해요.

So, the thing is, it's one of those where, have you ever done something where you did something for someone that's positive, but it was something about the way you did it that kinda like blew the whole thing up? So, Jay did something that was positive, but the fact that I didn't receive the information in the right way. You know, because I always feel like, man, I'm out here in Hollywood. I'm out here, like, my mom has passed, I don't know who I can trust. I don't trust nobody.


샬라메인제이도 당신에게  같은 존재였을  같은데   조금 감정적으로 대처를   같아요무대에서 그런 얘기를  이후에 제이도 녹음을 해서 맞대응을 했는데내가 이런저런  했다고 말하는  제이답지 않은 반응이었던  같아요.

And Jay was big brother, his big brother. I feel like both of y'all might've reacted emotionally though. Meaning that, like, you reacted emotionally when you was on stage, and you ranted, and then he replied in a record, you know. That's not really his, his character to do something like that. To put out like, "This is what I did for such and such.”


칸예: 네, 아예 음반을 낼 수도 있었는데 그 정도면 형같이 반응해 준 거죠. 저에 대해 모르는 게 없었고, 제 금전적인 부분들도 다 알았는데 더 심하게 할 수 있었죠. 그래서 제가 트위터에 빚을 진 상태라고 올렸을 때 제 권리를 돌려받는 기분이었어요. 다들 “그런 사실을 알리면 더 이상 멋있지 않을 거야”라며 말렸었는데, 저는 그런 부분들로 인해서 제 자신이 변하지 않는다고 믿었어요. 난 지금 빚이 있어, 그래서 뭐? 난 아직 Ye인 걸.

I mean, yeah, but he did it in an brotherly way, you know, he could've released an entire record or something, that was just a bar, you know what I mean. Could've went cray ... You got every single piece of information that possible on my life and stuff, know the finances are, you know, so ... Even, like, when I tweeted, I was in debt. That gave me power. I took my power back, because it's like someone trying to say like, "Yo, if you say this, you not gonna be cool no more." And it's like man, my financial situation don't make me. I'm in debt, now what? And I'm still Ye.


샬라메인: “8 Mile” 속에 에미넴 같은 선택이었네요다른 누군가가 이거를 약점으로 사용하기 전에 스스로 얘기를 하자그게 당신의 진심인  같아요왜냐면 그렇게 살아가면 아무도 진실을 갖고 협박하지 못하니까요

Yeah, you did the Eminem in "8 Mile.” Let me say it about myself, before somebody else can use it against me. That's what I call living your truth, though, live your truth, so, you know, when you live your truth, nobody can use your truth against you.


칸예: 네. 

Yeah.


샬라메인지금은 제이와 어떤 관계인가요?

You know, where you and Jay at now?


칸예: 사이좋아요. 문자도 주고받으면서 서로 좋은 에너지를 갖고 있죠.

We good. You know, we tweeting, I mean we texting each other. It's positive energy.


샬라메인만난 적은 있으세요?

Have y'all seen each other?


칸예: 본 적은 없지만 느껴져요. 

I haven't seen him, but I can feel him.


샬라메인: “ 한번 놀러 와서  먹고 앉아서 얼굴 보고 얘기하자라고  수는 없는 건가요왜냐면 제이도 항상 인터뷰를 하면 “ 형제 같다사랑한다라고 얘기하거든요 만나지는 않는 건가요?

Alright. What keeps, what keeps brothers like y'all from just, "Yo, come to the house, man. Let's have a meal. Let’s sit down and talk face to face, eye to eye." 'Cause every time I, you know, see him doing an interview with [inaudible] David Letterman, whoever, he's saying, "That's my brother, like, I love him." Like, so what, what stops you all from just face-to-face communication?


칸예: 저는 만나고 싶어요. 근데 살면서 서로 너무 비슷한 사람을 만나면, 가끔은 각자만의 존재감을 만들어가기 위해 각자만의 세상, 각자만의 대본이 필요한 것 같아요.  

I would do it. Sometimes, also, like, when you have, like, such similar personalities, and people are creating their own existence and their own world and their own simulation or whatever, they need to do it on their own.

 


샬라메인:  제이는 당신이 가족 얘기를 꺼내면서부터 너무 멀리 갔다고 해요같은 생각이세요너무 멀리 갔다고 생각하세요?

Jay said you went too far talking about his family. Do you feel that? Do you feel like you went too far?


칸예: 어떤 방면에서 보는지에 따라 다른 것 같아요. 저희가 가족이고 형제라면 … 

Well, it depends on how you look at it. If we're family, if we're brothers, and we are family, then-


샬라메인그럼 당신의 가족이기도 하겠네요.

It's your family too.


칸예: … 그럼 제 가족이죠. 하지만 그저 비즈니스 관계라면 너무 멀리 간 게 맞겠죠.  

… then it's my family. If we're business associates and this, then it was too far.


샬라메인알겠습니다

Gotcha.


칸예: 개인적으로 제 결혼식에 안 온 거에 상처받았어요. 많은 일들이 있었지만, 가족이라면 결혼식을 빠지지는 않지 않을까요. 이 인터뷰를 통해서 부정적인 느낌을 심으려는 건 아니지만요.

You know, respectfully. I was hurt about them not coming to the wedding. I understand they was going through some things, but if it's family, you know, you're not gonna miss a wedding. And I'm not, I'm not using this interview to put any negative things, but I've gotta state my-


샬라메인그냥 표현을 하시는 거네요.

You’re just expressing yourself.


칸예: 네, 그냥 사실을 얘기하는 거예요. 이런 일들이 꼬리의 꼬리를 물면서 그냥 생각이 많아지는 것 같아요. 제 성격이나 그런 것들을 생각하면 제가 문제일 수도 있고요, 어디든 데리고 다닐 수 있는 사촌동생 같은 느낌은 아니잖아요.

Yeah, I gotta state my truth. And then that one thing happens, and another thing happens, and another thing happens, and other things happen, and you just start coming up with all types of crazy ideas in your head and stuff. Like, why ... and it, obviously, is me. I'm, like, [inaudible] personality and stuff. I'm, like, the cousin you can't bring nowhere, all this type of stuff, obviously.


샬라메인결혼식에  왔다는  신기하네요비욘세가 킴과 사이가  좋다는 내용도 미디어에 돌아다니기도 했고카다시안 리얼리티 쇼를  좋아했다거나아니면 그들만의 문제가 있었을 수도 있죠  왔다고 생각하세요?

That’s interesting about the wedding did they not come? 'Cause, they, you know, in the press Beyoncé has a problem with Kim, or, you know, they don't like all the Kardashian reality show type thing, or maybe now in hindsight, maybe it was, 'cause they had their own issues that they was trying to work out. What do you think it was?


칸예: 잘 모르겠어요, 그냥 잊었어요. 근데 그 당시에는 상처받았었죠.

I’m not sure. I'm past it. But at the time, I was hurt about it.


샬라메인직접 물어보신 적은 없으세요?

Did you ask them?


칸예: 직접 물어본 적은 없는 것 같네요. 같이 일하는 사람들을 통해서 물어본 적은 있는데, 직접 물어보지는 않았어요.

I don't think I ever asked that question, directly. Maybe talking through someone that work with them, and that kind of thing, but never directly.


샬라메인: Ye, 신경 쓰이는 일들이 있다면 그걸 바로 얘기하시는  좋을  같아요물어보고 싶은  물어보고 표현하면서 스스로 돌파하는  같아요특히 답이 있는 질문들이라면답이 없는 문제들도 많은데이런  답을 바로 들을  있잖아요.

I think you've gotta address what bothers you, Ye. I think that's what might causing, what causes the breakthroughs, you know, when you're not asking the thing that you want to ask. Like, those are questions you can get answers for. Like, some things you can't get answers for, but that one you can get an answer for.


칸예: 하지만 그 답이 모든 걸 해결해 주지는 않는 것 같아요.

I don't think the answer fixes it.


샬라메인맞는 얘기에요다시 아까 나눴던 얘기로 돌아가서와이프에게 그런 일이 있었을  직접 보안 업체를 고르셨었는데죄책감에서 어떻게 벗어나셨나요왜냐면 당신의 잘못이 아닌 그저 운이었잖아요.

True. True. I want to go back to something you said, speaking about fixing something, like, how did you as a man forgive yourself for, you know, you said you feel like you let your, your wife down, 'cause you hired the security. How did you get over that? 'Cause that's not your fault. That's chance.


칸예: 그녀가 지금 이 세상에 없었다면 평생 스스로를 용서하지 않았겠죠. 연예인이라는 게 되게 이상한 것 같아요, 대통령만큼 유명한데 나라에서 보호해 주지 않고, 직접 보안을 찾아야 하니까요.

I mean, if she wasn't here, I would never forgive myself. You know, it's just bugged out, when you're super high profile, in the concept of celebrity. You're, like, as famous as the president, but you don't have the national guard with you. You've got to make your own community guard.


샬라메인계속 반복되는 문제이죠

It’s just a constant thing, basically.


칸예: 그래서 이제 제 와이프는 큰 다이아몬드를 끼고 다니지 않아요. 집에 주얼리나 돈, 명품, 미술 작품들, 아무것도 없어요. 특히 집에는 아이들이 있으니까요.

That’s like, my wife doesn't even wear big diamonds. We don't keep no jewelry, no money in the house, no name, high art, none of that. We don't keep any of that any place, you know, where our kids stay.


샬라메인제가  상담사와 얘기하는 것들 중에 하나에요왜냐면 아빠와 남편의 역할은 보호하고 보살피는 건데아이들과 24시간 같이 있을 수는 없잖아요지금 아이들은 학교에 있을 시간인데어떤 일이 일어날지 아무도 모르죠와이프와도 항상 같이 있지 못하니까그녀에게도 무슨 일이 생길 수도 있는 거고요그래서 항상 불안해하면서 신에게 맡기는  같아요이제 부모와 남편이 되어보니 차라리 혼자일   용감한  같으세요이제는 무언가에 도전하는   두려우신가요

That’s one of the things I talked to my therapist about, though, 'cause it's, it's a very vulnerable feeling being a father and a husband, 'cause our job is to protect and provide. But yo, we're not with our kids 24/7. Like, our kids' at school right now. Anything can happen, right. You know, you're not with wife all the time, so anything can happen. So it's kind of, like, a very vulnerable feeling, like, you've almost got to let go and let God, so to speak. You know? Do you think it's easy to be fearless, when it's just you that you have to worry about, what you know now being a husband and a parent? Does it make you more afraid to take more chances?


칸예: 네, 하지만 지금도 계속 용감해야 해요, 본능을 따라야 하고. 모든 사람들이 이 세상에서 갖고 있는 포지션이 있어요. 제가 태어난 이유가 있고, 제가 경험한 것들에도 다 이유가 있어요. 감정적이고, 병원을 다니고, 가족, 친구, 일적인 관계까지 모두 이유가 있죠. 본능을 따라야 해요.

Yeah, but you've gotta stay brave. You have to follow your gut feeling. You know, everyone has a position in the universe, and I've been made and had the experiences I've had for a reason, to be expressive, to go through going to the hospital, to go through the dynamics of family, brother, working relationships. I've gotta follow my gut.


샬라메인언어는 과대평가된 소통의 방식이라고 얘기하신  있으시죠단어들이 모든  해결해 주고 항상 공평한  아니니까요이거에 대해  설명해 주시겠어요?

You know, like you said, sometimes language is a overrated form of communication. Right? Like, words don't always do it, do it justice. Expand on that a little bit.


칸예: 자신을 표현하고 싶을 때 제한되어 있는 단어들이 그걸 막을 때가 많아요. 그냥 본질적인 감정이 들 때나 다른 사람과 대화를 할 때 너무 계획적이지 않았으면 해요. 대본 좀 그만 쓰고, 두려움에 의해서만 행동하지 마요. 사랑으로 대하고 행동하면 우주가 그걸 뒷받침해줄 거예요. 트위터에도 “사랑으로 행동하면 물 한 방울이 되어 바다가 자신의 군단이 되어주는 거고, 두려움으로 행동하면 그냥 너 자신과 돈뿐이야”라는 비슷한 내용을 올린 적 있어요. 그 돈을 갖고 비트코인에 투자를 하든 크레디트를 쌓든, 바다 앞에 서는 순간 누가 이길 것 같으세요?

When you want to express yourself, a lot of times words can get in the way. It's just this innate feeling that we have, you know. When someone's talking to you, trying to talk you into something or something like that. Stop strategizing so much. Stop setting so many plays. Stop doing things only based in fear. Like, the universe will assist you when you are acting in love. I tweeted this thing where I said, "When you're acting in love, you're like a drop of water, and you have the ocean as your army. When you act in fear, it's just you and your money.” Now, you can take your money and put it in Bitcoin, put it in credit form, put it in cash, but all your cash and then stand up to the ocean, and who's gonna win?


샬라메인당신의 심리를  이해해가는 중이에요무대에 서서  모든 얘기를 하셨을 때는 두려움으로 인해 행동하신 거잖아요.

I'm understanding, I think, your mind state a little bit more. Like, when you was on stage, and you'd be going into those rants, it was out of fear. You were afraid at that time.


칸예: 그런 얘기들을 한건 용감했던 것 같아요. 이제는 완벽함보다 용감함이 더 중요해진 것 같아요, 생각보다 감정이 더 중요한 것처럼. 사람들은 모두 생각을 너무 많이 해요, “어떻게 될까?”라면서. 그래서 제가 한 얘기들은 용감함에 의한 것 같아요. 지금 저희가 살고 있는 세상에서는 사람들이 진실을 말하고 있어요, 자기 자신을 표현하면서. 저는 항상 이것만을 기다려왔어요, 이 순간만을. 왜냐면 지금까지 너무 정치적인 세상이었거든요, “이건 하면 안 돼, 이거 해야 돼. 이런 사람들과 어울려야 해”라며 타인을 만족시키기 위해 모든 걸 했죠. 근데 이제는 그런 방식으로 남을 위해 살아가고 있지는 않은 것 같아요. 이제는 자기 자신의 만족을 위해 사는 것 같아요.

I think to do the rants, though, were brave. I think we're in a place now where bravery is more important than perfection. Feeling is more important than thought. People put so much thought into it: "What's gonna happen?" So I actually think that the rants came from a place of bravery, and I had enough of the politics. You know, and that's the world that we're in right now, people are speaking their truth. You know, people are expressing their selves. And you know, I've been waiting for this. I've been waiting for this moment, 'cause it's always been such a, you know, just a politically ran'd, you know, society, and mentality that everyone's been in, and stuff like, "Don't do that. You need to do this. You need to ... You don't need to hang out with them, you need to hang out with them. Blah blah," and all this. And like, trying to please people and all that stuff, and I don't feel like, right now, people are trying to please people the same way. They're trying to please themselves. 


샬라메인그게 나쁜 일이라고  수도 있지 않나요왜냐면 저는 하루의 끝에는 저희 모두 그저 나라를 위해 일하는 사람들이라고 느껴요나라가 필요한 일을 하는 사람들개개인보다  중요한 사람들

That could, that could be a bad thing too, though, right? 'Cause I feel like we're all public servants at the end of the day. We're here to serve the needs of the public. We're all greater than ourselves.


칸예: 그 나쁘다는 단어를 꼭 짚고 넘어가야 할 거 같아요. 그리고 좋고 나쁘다는 개념도요. 어떤 면에 서 보는지에 따라 좋고 나쁜 게 결정되고, 목적이 뭔지에 따라도 변하는 것 같아요. 그러니 당연히 나쁘다고 볼 수도 있겠죠. 아직 저희의 언어는 저희가 느끼는 감정들을 모두 표현할 만큼 완성되어 있지 않아요. 그러니 저희 둘 다 2030년도에서 생각을 하고 있더라도 현재의 시간으로 대화해야 하죠.

Well, we've definitely gotta touch on the word bad. And the idea of good and bad. Things just are. It depends on what side you're on if something is good or bad, and it depends on what your agenda is. But of course, we could speak in terms of bad. You know, our language hasn't evolved to what either of us are feeling at this point. So both of us could be thinking in 2030, but we've still gotta communicate in 2018, because that's when this is dropping. 


샬라메인그런가요그래도 항상 미래에서 놀고 계신  같은데요

Do we though? 'Cause you always seem to play it in the future.


칸예: 맞네요, 미래에 있을 수 있네요. 

Yeah, I guess we don't. I guess we could be in the future.


샬라메인다들 따라잡아야죠

Yeah, people gotta catch up.


칸예: 네. 근데 그 나쁘다는 단어로 돌아가서요, 사람들은 너무 자기 편, 상대 편, 긍정, 부정, 그리고 좋고 나쁜 기준으로 나누려고만 해요. 부정적인 것들을 너무 나쁘게만 봐요, 그게 인생의 균형을 맞춰주는 것인데 말이에요.

Yeah. I was saying that with the word bad, though. 'Cause people are, people, people are so raised on the idea of home team, away team, positive, negative, good, bad. Like, I think negative gets too much of a negative rap, you know. That ... Life is a balance.


샬라메인저도 그렇게 생각해요아까 좋고 나쁜 경험들을 믿지 않는다고 하셨는데 그게 그냥  인생의  부분인  같아요과거에  좋았던 일들을 지금 다시 돌아봐도 아직 나쁘게만 생각되나요 경험을 통해 배운 것들도 있지 않아요?

Yeah, that's we was talking earlier. I was like, "and I don't believe in any good or bad experiences." I feel, like, everything's just a part of the process of life. You know, when you think about bad experiences that have happened to you, do you still look at them as just bad? Or did you learn something from them?


칸예: 나쁜 건 없어요, 적도 없고. 심지어 당신을 죽이고 싶어 하는 사람들도 적은 아니에요. 이것도 트위터에 올리려고 했었는데, 남들이 제 의도대로 봐줄지 몰라서 안 올렸었어요. 지금도 아이디어들이 굉장히 많아요, 그걸 계속 쌓아가면서 산들을 넘고 눈덩이를 더 크게 만들며 계속해서 표현할 거예요.

There’s no bad. And there's no enemies. Even people who want to kill you are not your enemy. That's something I was going to tweet, and I was like, "I feel this, but I don't know if people would take it in a certain way." I've got a lot of ideas that forward, and, you know, I'm just gonna keep building, like, a mountain, a mountain, like, a snowball, snowball ideas, and just keep getting more and more ... more, more expressive as I go.


샬라메인인간 칸예 웨스트가 브랜드 칸예 웨스트에 맞서 싸우고 있는 느낌이에요

I feel like Kanye West, the man, is rebelling against Kanye West, the brand.


칸예: 이제 더 이상 @kanyewest 이메일 주소를 쓰지 않아요. 이제 칸예 웨스트가 되는 거 그만하려고요, 그게 무슨 뜻이던. 하지만 제 영혼, 제 태도는 자신의 진실된 삶을 살기 위해 노력하는 과정을 잘 보여주는 것 같아요. 그건 제가 당장 내일 죽더라도 계속 여기 남아있을 거예요.

You know, my email is not @kanyewest. I've retired from whatever that meant, to be Kanye West. But I think the spirit, my spirit, my attitude is a representation of fighting for your own truthful live ... Like, if I die tomorrow, it would live past me.


샬라메인그게 당신의 이름이죠투팍처럼당신의 어머니가  이름이잖아요칸예 웨스트

That’s your name, though, just like Tupac. That was his name. Like, you're mother gave you the name, Kanye West.


칸예: 네, 그리고 “유일한 사람”이라는 뜻을 갖고 있죠. 제가 병원에 다닐 때 정말 대단하다고 느낀 것들 중에 하나가 투팍이 켄드릭 앨범에 썼던 30대 흑인 남자에 대한 가사에요. 그걸 듣고 “나는 지금 39살까지 해내고 있네”라는 생각을 했어요. 이제 40살이 되면서 같은 생각을 해요. 그리고 정말 신기했던 게 병원을 나오면서 자신감을 모두 잃었어요.

Yeah. And it means, "The only one." You know, one of the incredible things I thought about when I went to the hospital is, on Kendrick's album there's this skit, uh, where Tupac is talking about the black man at age 30, right? And I'm like, "I made it to 39." I made it to 39 with my opinion. Alive with my opinion. Now, I'm 40, and I still have my opinion. You know, one of the things that was incredible when I got out of the hospital was ... um ... I had lost my confidence.


샬라메인자신감 없는 칸예 웨스트그건 마치 점프를 못하는 마이클 조든 같네요.

Kanye West with no confidence? That's like Micheal Jordan with no jump anymore.


칸예: 그리고 그게 티가 났어요. 저는 항상 자신감이 부족한 사람들과 공감하지 못했었어요, 저는 너무 많았으니까요. 자신감이 없는 게 무슨 뜻인지조차 몰랐어요.

Like, and you could see it. I never had the empathy for people who lacked confidence. I had so much of it, I didn't know what it was like to be without it.


샬라메인자신감이 아예 하나도 없었나요아니면 그냥 평소보다  했던 건가요

Do you mean zero confidence? Like, you just was less confident than usual?


칸예: 그냥 블랙 팬서, 슈퍼맨 정도의 자신감이 아니었던 거죠. 제 목소리를 내지도 않았었고, 병원에서 나와서 다음 패션쇼를 서고 좋은 리뷰들을 받은 것도 그 덕분인 것 같아요. 마치 사람들이 자신감 없는 저의 모습을 보면서 “그래, 그렇게 해야지. 우리가 원했던 건 그거야"라고 하는 것 같았어요.

It just wasn't Black Panther, Superman level confidence. You know, I wouldn't speak up, you know. Like, where I was when I got out of the hospital, even when I did the next fashion show, it got all these good reviews. Yeah, 'cause I was less confident, 'cause it's like, "There, there, boy. That's exactly what we wanted.”


샬라메인그렇군요그러니까 인정을 받는 거와 진실성을 교환한 거네요.

Ah. Okay. Okay. So you, you, you traded your authenticity for approval.


칸예: 교환한 건 아니죠, 제가 갖고 있지 않았으니까. 제 자신이 없었어요, 자신감도 없었고.

I didn't trade it. I just didn't have it. I didn't have me. I didn't have my confidence.


샬라메인무엇이 칸예 웨스트의 자신감을 빼앗었을까요

What took Kanye's confidence?


칸예: 정확히는 모르겠어요. 의사가 설명할 수 있을지도 모르겠는데, 그냥 스스로 돌파구를 찾는 과정과 연결되어 있겠죠. 근데 아까 말했다시피, 긍정과 부정 둘 다 없어요. 그리고 그때 느낀 감정들 덕분에 겸손할 수 있었던 거 같아요. 많은 사람들이 저한테 의지하고 있고, “슈퍼맨, 이거 좀 해줘”라고 하는 듯이 기대하는 것도 많아요. 웃긴 게 제 아내도 항상 “내가 책임져야 해”라고 말해요, “Ye의 어머니도 돌아가셨고 내가 이 슈퍼히어로를 돌봐야 해”라면서. 제 가사 중에도 “아이들에게서 자신감을 빼앗고 백인 우월주의를 가리키는 부모들은 자신의 개념부터 돌아봐야 해”라는 내용이 있어요. 이 인터뷰에도 잘 맞는 것 같은데, 그 당시에 노래에 넣었을 때는 너무 인종에 대한 문제를 들어내는 것 같아서 마음에 들지 않았어요. 당연히 인종차별은 지금도 너무 중요한 문제지만, 더 미래에 대한 얘기들을 하고 싶었어요. 지금 생각나는 얘기들이 두 개가 있는데, 제 아내에 대한 얘기도 하고 싶고 20불짜리 지폐에 있는 해리엇 터브만에 대해서도 얘기하고 싶네요.

I don't know exactly what it was. I mean, maybe a doctor could give an explanation, but it had to do with something with coming through the breakthrough. But as we said before, no positive or negative. Um, but it also, that humility gave me time to ... to grow. And it, everyone just backed off. A lot of people depend on me. They ask for a lot of things. They're like, "Superman, do this for me." Uh, and, uh ... you know, one of the things that ... the, the irony, 'cause people always talk about the sunken place. Um, the funny thing about that is that my wife, like, she's like, "I'm responsible." Like, "Ye's mom has passed away. I'm responsible to take care of this superhero." You know, I've got this rap that say, "Parents oughta strip strip kids of their confidence, teach white dominance, question your common sense." Um, now, when I said it, I like it for this interview. When I said it on a song, I didn't like the frequency of it because it felt dated, because it, it touched on race too much. So it's not that, not that racism ... we definitely are dealing with racism, but I want to push future concepts, you know. Now, I'm giving you two streams of consciousness in one: I want to talk about my wife, I also want to talk about Harriet Tubman twenty dollar bill.


샬라메인따라가고 있습니다좋은 흐름이에요.

We’re following you. We're following y’all. You set it up good.


칸예: 20불짜리 지폐에 해리엇 터브만을 본 순간 비트코인을 사용하고 싶었어요.

That was the moment that I wanted to use Bitcoin, when I saw Harriet Tubman on a twenty dollar bill.


샬라메인왜죠

Why?


칸예: 보는 순간 그냥 노예 영화들과 비슷하잖아요. 왜 계속 노예 제도에 대해 상기시켜야 해요? 그냥 지폐에 마이클 조든을 놓던지 말이에요.

It’s like, when you just see, like, all the slave movies. It's, like, why you gotta keep reminding us about slavery? Why don't you show us, put Micheal Jordan on a twenty dollar bill.


샬라메인하지만 해리엇 터브만은 저항을  노예였잖아요약간 당신과 비슷해요통제되고 싶지 않아 한다는 면에서요

But Harriet Tubman was a slave who rebelled, though. Like, her and Nat Turner had a different frequency, though. They kind of were, like, you were, you said you didn't feel like being controlled.


칸예: 네, 웃긴 얘기가 하나 생각나네요. 제 친구가 트위터에 저와 버질이 함께 서있는 사진을 “말콤 엑스, 마틴 루터 킹”이라는 캡션과 함께 올렸어요. 근데 댓글들에 화나있는 사람들이 많더라고요, “어떻게 그런 위인들과 비교를 해?”라면서. 이 발언이 논란이 될 걸 알지만, 어떤 위인들이 지금 세대와 연결되어 있기엔 너무 많은 시간이 지났어요. 그래미 시상식에 가서 노예 제도에 관한 얘기, 인종차별에 관한 얘기는 할 수 있어도 주식을 사고 땅을 사는 얘기는 못하잖아요.

Yeah, you know what? It's funny, like, my boy tweeted a picture of me and Virgil, and he said, "Malcolm X, Martin Luther King," and all these people mad like, "how can you compare them to that?" Man ... I know this is gonna cause an uproar, but certain icons is just too far in the past and not relatable. And what makes them safe. Like, they'll let you go on the Grammys and talk about slavery and all that, and racism, because it's not talking about buying stock, it's not talking about buying property.


샬라메인그게 마틴 루터  주니어를 죽음에 이루게  것이기도 하죠시민 권리 운동을  때도 아니고경제적 자유권에 대해 얘기할 그리고 피부  상관없이 가난한 사람들이 모여 워싱턴에서 시위를   그를 죽였죠.

Well, that's what ultimately got Martin Luther King Jr. killed. Like, it wasn't when he was fighting for civil rights, it's when he started talking about economic empowerment, when he was playing at things like the poor people's march, which was gonna be the largest march on Washington, with people of all colors that were just poor and disenfranchised. That's when they took Martin out.


칸예: 무섭네요.

Scary.


샬라메인버질 얘기가 나와서 말인데현재는 루이비통의 수석 디자이너로 일하고 있죠오프 화이트의 대표였는데 지금 자리에 온건 어떻게 생각하세요

With that said, 'cause you mentioned Virgil, like, he's now a creative director for Louis Vuitton. Do you feel like he went from being owner with Off-white to now being a player? How do you feel about that?


칸예: 어떤 일이 가능하다고 증명하기 위해 그걸 직접 실행으로 옮겨야 하는 사람들이 있어요. 오바마 대통령도 공무원으로 시작했잖아요. 돈과 소유권이 중요한 게 아니고 이 세상이 새로운 가능성을 보는 게 더 중요하죠. 그래서 버질은 그 가능성을 만들어내기 위해 일하고 있는 거예요. 저도 지금 얘기하고 있는 것들을 얘기할 때까지 두려웠어요. 제 오피스, 지금 이 300에이커의 토지, 다 보여주기 무서웠어요. 하지만 제가 내일 살인을 당하고 이 모든 걸 없애더라도 지금 이 가능성을 세상에 보여줬다는 게 중요해요. 지금 이걸 보고 있는 고등학생, 아니면 대학생들한테. 투팍이 어느 순간 배턴을 넘기면서 “내가 여기 없을 수도 있어”라고 했던 거처럼.

Some people have to do things just to prove that they can be done. And whether they become the billionaire, da-da-da-da, on the other side of it, you know ... Obama went into that office as a public servant in a service position. And it didn't matter the amount of money. It didn't matter the amount of ownership. The world needed to see that this was a possibility. So for Virgil, the world just needs to see things. You know, I was afraid to speak the way I speak now. I was afraid to show you my office in Calabasas. I was afraid to show you this 300 acres that I just purchased that I'm building my first community on, my first five properties on, because I felt like it would be shut down. But it's not about me. Even if I got killed tomorrow, and they shut everything down, the fact that I put the idea out is the Black Panther shit. That it's a kid watching this in high school, and a kid in college, because at a certain point ... you know, Pac, at a certain point, he just had the message and hand the baton. He's like, "I might not be here."


샬라메인스스로  세상을 바꾸지 못하더라도 다른 사람에게 세상을 바꿀  있는 가능성을 심어준다

I may not change the world, but I'm a spark the seed in somebody else that may change the world.


칸예: 맞아요, 그거예요.

Yeah, and that's the thing.


샬라메인다른 사람들을 남성과 여성  이상으로 봐놓고 그들이 인간적인 실수를 하면 실망해요.

We look at human beings as more than men or more than women. And then when they do something that's human there's like, ah, they've let us down.


칸예: 아, 맞는 얘기에요. 제가 병원에 누워있을 때, 병원에서 일하는 흑인들이 다 가족 같았어요. 한 인종, 한 인류, 한 생명체라고 하고 싶지만 흑인 연예인으로 미국에서 산다는 건 다른 요소가 있어요. 그 병원 침대에 누워서 창문 밖에 있는 UCLA 흑인 직원을 봤을 때, 그들을 실망시킨 기분이었어요. 그들이 저를 보고 고개를 저으면서 “저거 Ye인데 병원 침대에 누워있어. 우리 Ye인데 말이야”라고 하는 것 같았어요.

Ah, yeah, bro. When I was in the hospital, especially the black people that worked at the hospital, and I was on the hospital bed, and ... I felt like they were like my family members, and I look at them in their eyes, and I don't know. It was like the tribe or something. It's like, as much as I want to say we're one race, one humanity, one living organism, you know, there is an element of the black celebrity in America. And when I was laid out on a hospital bed, looking through the window at a black UCLA employee, I felt like I had let them down. I felt like they was looking at me, like, just shake their, not just sad. It's like, "Oh, that's Ye. That's Ye in that hospital bed. That's our Ye, bro."


샬라메인그게 당신의 사람들인 거죠그리고 도널드 트럼프를 만난 것도 굉장히 중요한 순간이었던  같아요많은 사람들이 실망했었죠.

That is your tribe, though. I think you know, one of the big moments was when you, you met with Donald Trump. And I think that let a lot of people down. 


칸예: 네, 왜냐면 사람들은 항상 인종차별에 대해 먼저 얘기해요. 제 친구가 저한테 “왜 조지 부시가 트럼프보다 더 인종차별주의자라는 거야?”라는 질문을 한 적이 있어요. 근데 제 대답은, 저한테 인종차별은 중요한 요소가 아니에요. 그랬다면 이미 미국에 안 살고 있겠죠.

Yeah, that feeling, yeah, because people, first thing they say is racism. They say, "Well, what makes George Bush any more racist than Trump?" is a question my friend asked me. My response is ... well, racism isn't the deal breaker for me. If that was the case, I wouldn't live in America.

 


샬라메인정말  많은 흑인만   있는 얘기네요정말요.

That’s some rich, that's some rich nigga shit there, though. That's some rich nigga talk.


칸예: 돈 많은 흑인으로서도 인종차별을 겪어요. 그래서 오바마를 존경해요, 그는 완벽하다고 생각해요. 거의 나이키 같은 사람이죠. 항상 전체적인 계획이 있고 전략도 있어요. 악당 같은 사람이 갑자기 와서는 “시카고를 위해 해야 해. 이것도 해야 하고 저것도 해야 해”라는 말을 던지고 가도 신경 안 쓸 사람이에요. 제가 나이키와 일을 할 때 나이키도 그랬거든요, 하나도 바꿀 생각 없었어요. 마크 파커와 나이키 직원들 모두를 존경해요, 그리고 부모로서 그분한테 사과하고 싶어요, 그분과 그의 회사를 안 좋게 얘기한 거에 대해서. 오리지널 이지를 만들 수 있게 기회를 준 건 나이키였고, 같이 비행을 했었는데 저의 스케치들을 보고 “이거 좀 봐봐. 이 친구한테 기회를 줘야겠어”라고 하며 팅커 해트필드에게 소개를 시켜줬었어요. 그 사람들과 처음 이지를 만들었죠. 그러니 한 아이의 아빠로서 미안하다고 하고 싶어요, 저에게 안 좋은 일이 다시 돌아온다면 받아들일 거예요.

Oh, no. As a rich nigga, I deal with racism. I do. So I got love for Obama, I got love for everybody, every human being that ever existed. But, I felt like Obama was perfect. He was almost like Nike. If you sew in the good with everything, and you got your whole thing planned out and strategized. If you have, like, a rogue character, like me, that comes in and says, "We need to do this for Chicago. We need to do this, that," you gonna take it with a grain of salt. You know, Nike ... when I was at Nike, they weren't willing to change anything. They feel like who I have the most respect for. I have respect for everyone at Nike too. These guys, Mark Parker, you know, I just got to speak out as a parent, you know, and apologize to this man for ever speaking ill on his name, and his company. Um, because he gave me that shot when we did the original Yeezy at Nike, and he was there with me. I was on a plane with him, I was sketching, and he said, "Look at this sketch. I'm gonna give this guy a chance," and he put me next to Tinker Hatfield. And, it's me and Don C. making the first Yeezy with Tinker Hatfield and Mark Parker. That was the squad that made the original Yeezy. So, I always wanted to express that as a father, and when my karma comes, you know, I'll accept it in real time.


샬라메인가끔 감정적으로 얘기도 하고 그러는 거죠

Well, people speak out of frustration sometime.


칸예: 네, 그래도 안 좋은 일이 언젠간 저한테 다시 돌아올 거예요. 제 여자친구는 아이가 있어요, 저희는 아이를 키워야 해요. 그래서 가족을 먹여 살리기 위해 내려야 하는 결정들이 많아요. 저는 나이키가 너무 좋았어요, 지금 투자자들 때문에 과거형으로 말해야 하지만. 어렸을 때 나이키 로고를 그리면서 컸으니 떠날 때 마음이 아팠어요. 하지만 제 신발에 로열티를 걸어주지 않았고, 저는 제 신발이 전 세계에서 가장 핫하다고 믿었기에 “5,000개를 만들든 10,000개를 만들든 네가 좋아하는 단체에 기부금 좀 넣어줄게”라고 하는 회사에서 더 이상 할 수 있는 게 없었어요. 지금 저는 공장들을 만들고 있는데, 그때 그들은 아무것도 못 짓게 했어요.

Yeah, but I got some karma waiting on me. My girlfriend has a child. We have a baby. You make decisions in your life based on providing for your family. I'd love Nike, I loved the Nike. I have to put the -ed on it for the stockholders. So, but when I was young, I used to sketch the swoosh, everything, you know, so it was heartbreaking for me to have to leave Nike. But, they refuse to allow me to get royalty on my shoe, and I knew I had the hottest shoe in the world. I knew Yeezy was the hottest brand in the world. But, I couldn't get royalties, they just said, "Look, you can make 5,000 shoes or 10,000 shoes, and we'll give some of the proceeds to your favorite charity," but it was nothing to build. Now we building factories, they wouldn't let me build anything.


샬라메인세대를 뛰어넘는 재산을 만들려고 하는 거군요.

You're trying to create generational wealth.


칸예: 올해 10억 달러 찍을 것 같아요, 한 번도 일어난 적 없는 일이죠.

And, we're gonna hit a billion this year. It's never, ever been heard of.


샬라메인불안하진 않으세요그게 불안감을 주진 않나요

Does that make you anxious? Did that give you anxiety?


칸예: 제 영향력의 비율로 따졌다면 지금 벌써 억만장자가 되고도 남았을 거예요. 그래서 결정을 하고, 떠나서 저만의 것을 할 수 있는 곳을 찾은 거죠. 지금 아디다스의 CEO와 바로 통화할 수도 있어요, 마크 파커는 저와 직접 전화를 한 적은 없었죠.

It's what it's supposed to be. You know, if I really had some percentage that related to my actual influence I'd be like a multi-trillionaire, so that's fine. So, I made the decision, and I left, and I went with someone that would allow me to build something. You know, I can call the CEO of Adidas directly, I have his cellphone. Mark Parker wouldn't get on the phone with me.


샬라메인정말요그럼 사과할 필요도 없는  아닌가요통화도  해줬다면.

Really? I don't even think you should be apologizing to him then, if he wouldn't even give you a courtesy call.


칸예: 네, “왜 사람들이 이지를 좋아하는지 모르겠네”라고도 하고요. 근데 웃긴 건 지금 나이키에서 제일 핫한 사람들은 다 저와 일했던 직원들이에요.

Yeah, you know, they'd say things like, "I don't know why people like the Yeezys," and you know, various ... So, and the funny thing is look at Nike now. Literally, all the people that ever worked with me are like the hottest people at Nike now.


샬라메인같이 일하던 사람들이 당신을 배신했던 곳에서 일하고 있는 거에 대해 어떻게 생각하세요예를 들면 버질.

How did that make you feel when they leave you to go back to a place that stifled y'all basically? The people that used to work with you. Virgil.


칸예: 그들도 가족이 있잖아요. 그런 대기업들은 기회를 만들어주고요. 제 친구들이고, 다들 가족이 있고. 제가 그들에게 같은 기회들을 주지 못한다면 그들의 앞길을 막아서도 안되죠. 

Um, they got families, bro. You know, these corporations they provide an opportunity. These are my friends, they have their families. If I'm not gonna provide them the same opportunity, I'm not gonna stand in their way either.


샬라메인하지만 같은 기회를 주는  아닌가요이미 존재하는 것보다 지금 만들어 내고 있는 과정에 있다는 차이 빼고요.

But, you are providing them the same opportunity, it's just more of a ... y'all are building something as opposed to something that already exists now.


칸예: 그런 대기업 옆에서 자신만의 브랜드를 만들 수 있는 그 공간을 좋아하는 사람들이 많아요. 저와 일하면 그냥 저의 브랜드에서 일하게 되는 거지만, 사람들은 자신만의 브랜드를 만들고 싶어 하죠. 그런 사람들은 저를 최대한 멀리해야죠, 그늘에서 벗어나기 위해.

A lot of times people like the room, the space, you know, when you get such a big corporation you could build up your own brand next to it. If you're really close to me, it's just gonna be my brand. So, people, you know, want to build their own brand, actually need to be as far away from me as possible to just to get out of the shadow.


샬라메인조금 이상하네요왜냐면 칸예 웨스트의 존재만으로 받는 관심이 있잖아요버질이 칸예 웨스트의 수석 디자이너디자인 파트너가 아니었다면 저는 그가 누군지도 몰랐을 거예요.

That’s kinda weird. That's weird, because, you know, you being Kanye West, the heat that you bring heats them up just enough. Like, I wouldn't know a Virgil if he hadn't been Kanye West's creative director, creative collaborator, whatever you wanted to call it.

 

칸예: 다 흥미로운 일이에요, 다양한 감정들도 생기고. “아, 얘네는 내 크루야. 내 크루가 나이키를 씹어먹고 있어”라는 기분이 들 때도 있지만, 내 크루인데 내 옆에 있었으면 좋겠을 때도 있어요. 버질은 전략가이고, 저는 감정적인 사람이에요. 예를 들면 저는 아이디어를 떠올리는 니콜라 테슬라이고, 버질은 건축가이기 때문에 그 생각들을 현실로 만들어줘요. 

Yeah. It's interesting how it all unfolds. Um, and you feel different ways, there's a lot of ... there's mixed emotions. You're like, "Oh, this is my crew. My crew is working for Nike, killing it." You know, I want my crew next to me, because like when I get on the phone with Virgil, that's my team. He's like the strategist. I'm the emoter, I'm like Tesla, I'm thinking of all the ideas, like Nikolai Tesla, like not the car. Uh, and I'm thinking of all these ideas and Virgil's able to take all of those ideas, and then architect them, because he is an architect.


샬라메인버질에 대해  얘기하고 싶은데 일단 다시 대통령 얘기로 돌아가죠아직 오바마나이키그리고 트럼프의 연관성을 이해하지 못했어요

Yeah, I want to go back to Virgil too, but go back ... Let's go back to the President thing. I'm still trying to figure out what's the correlation between Obama, Nike, and how it relates to Trump.


칸예: 오바마가 선거에 나가기 전에 저와 제 어머니를 만난 적 있어요. 제일 좋아하는 아티스트라고도 했죠, 좋은 취향을 갖고 있는 사람이에요.

See, Obama came to me before he ran for office, and he met with me and my mother to let me know he was gonna run for office 'cause I am his favorite artist of all time. Because, I am the greatest artist of all time. You know, and it makes sense, he's got good taste.


샬라메인이제 자신감이 완전히 돌아왔네요

Yeah, he's got his confidence back.


칸예: 아니요, 그냥 팩트를 말하는 거죠. 제 다음에 더 대단한 사람이 있을 수도 있지만, 저는 Ye인걸요. 지금까지 지나간 모든 것들을 뛰어넘는 거잖아요.

No, I'm just saying that, it's a flat statement. Uh, up to this point, you know. After me there will be greater, you know, but this is Ye, like, this is like past anything that's happened up to this point.


샬라메인마이클 잭슨프린스스티비 원더그런 사람들까지 포함해서요?

Even the Michael Jackson, Prince, Stevie Wonder, whoever else you want to throw out there?


칸예: 하워드 휴즈도 포함시키죠. 헨리 포드, 월트 디즈니, 그리고 스티브 잡스까지. 자기 자신이 누군지 잘 알고 있어야죠. 어쨌든 오바마는 “Ye, 너는 내가 제일 좋아하는 아티스트야. 너의 지지가 필요해. 나 대통령 선거에 나갈 거야"라고 해서 “대단하다”라고 생각했었죠. 흑인 대통령, 그리고 시카고 출신이기까지. 그러고 나서 안 봤으면 좋을 영상이 떴었는데, 아마 보셨을 거예요.

’Cause I'd throw out there ... I'd throw Howard Hughes in there, I'd throw, uh, Henry Ford, I’d throw Walt Disney, I’d throw Steve Jobs. You gotta know who you are. Um, so Obama is like, "Ye," he's like, "My favorite artist, I want your support. I'm running for office." I'm like, "Aw this is dope," you know, black president, this dude's mad cool, he's from, you know, Chicago. Then, when I went on stage, and it would have been good if this video didn't get out, but you saw the video.


샬라메인당신을 멍청이라고 부른 영상 말인가요?

Where he called you a jackass?


칸예: 네. 그 이후에 사과 전화도 없었어요. 제 어머니와 같이 앉아서 저와 직접 대화했던 같은 사람이 말이에요. 저한테 연락을 해서 “Ye, 뭔지 알잖아. 그럴 상황이었고, 그냥 장난이었어”라고 했어야죠.

Yeah. You know, he never called me to apologize. Just the same person that sat down with me and my mom, I think should have communicated to me directly, and been like, "Yo Ye, yo, you know what it is. You know, I'm in the room, and it was just a joke," you know.


샬라메인칸예 웨스트라는 슈퍼스타그리고 브랜드가  입장에서 대중들은 당신이 인간  이상이 되길 원해요근데 당신도 인간이고인간들은 감정이 있죠.

You get to this point where you're Kanye West, the superstar, the brand, and it's like, they want you to be everything but human. But, you're a human being, human beings got emotions.


칸예: 제 자신 빼고 뭐든 되길 바라죠. 

They want you to be everything but you.


샬라메인그냥 당신이 느끼는 데로 표현할  있어야 된다고 믿어요비욘세에 대해 들었던 소식들에 대해서든오바마가 당신을 멍청이라고 부른 것에 대해서든.

I’m just saying, if you feel a way about, you know, something you heard that Beyonce did, or you feel a way about Obama calling you a jackass, you should be able to express that.


칸예: 복잡한 거 같아요. 제가 언젠가 대통령이 될 수도 있는 거니까 제가 그 상황에 놓일 수도 있는 거고, 그때는 매체들에게 왜 어떤 일이 안 일어나는지, 왜 해결되지 않는지 설명하기 더 어렵겠죠. 그래서 오바마가 완벽히 이해돼요. 이해해요. 결혼식에 오지 않은 것도 이해하고, 다 이해해요. 그래도 그냥 감정이 있을 뿐이에요. 복잡해요.

This is complex. Because these are voices, I might be president one day. You know, so I might be in that situation where it's harder for me to explain to the masses why something isn't happening that they feel that the concept of a president should be able to fix. So, to Obama, I will say that I understand, bro. Like, I understand, I understand. Like, [inaudible] not coming to the wedding, they just had an altercation, I understand. But, I have my feelings also. So, it's complex.


샬라메인마지막으로 오바마와 대화를 나눈  언제예요그때 어머니와 만났을 때가 마지막인가요?

When’s the last time you even spoke to Obama? Was that the last time, when he met with you and your mom?


칸예: 샌프란시스코에서 모금행사를 할 때 뵌 적 있어요. 제가 무대에 서기 바로 직전에 가셨다고 들었어요.

We did a fundraiser for them in San Francisco. And, we did a performance for them, and right before I went on stage, someone let me know that he had left.


샬라메인그럼 그날  만난 거네요?

So, you didn't even get to see him that day?


칸예: 그전에 뵀죠.

I saw him beforehand.


샬라메인그렇군요그래도 공연하기 직전에 가셨다고요기분이 어떠셨어요

Before, okay, okay, okay. He left right before you performed? So, that made you feel a way?


칸예: 이상했죠. 

I felt a way, bro.


샬라메인그럼  먼저 얘기를  하세요먼저 연락하셔서 어떤 기분이셨는지 얘기하실  있잖아요.

Why you just don't reach out to the brother, man? You could get in touch with him, just to let him know, like I feel a way.


칸예: 이 인터뷰를 보면 얘기하겠죠. 저도 감정이 있잖아요. 무슨 말인지 아시죠? 아무도 저한테 빚진 거 없지만 그냥 그런 감정들을 느낄 뿐이에요.

He’ll see this interview, we'll talk. I be feeling a way, I be feeling ... I've got feelings, bro. You feeling a way, bro, I be feeling. You know what I'm saying? Nobody owes me anything, but I'm still gonna feel what I feel.


샬라메인: “도널드 트럼프를 만나봐야겠다라는 생각을 들게  계기가 뭐였나요그때 당시에 Ye 어떤 상태였나요자신감을 잃었던 Ye였나요?

What was the feeling that made you say, "You know what, I want to go meet with Donald Trump?" And, what Ye are we talking about when that happened? Was that the Ye with no confidence?


칸예: 네, 근데 그걸 변명으로 사용하진 않을 거예요. “내가 그때 당시에 힘든 상태여서 트럼프를 만났어”라고 변명하지 않을게요. 정정당당하게 제가 한 일에 책임을 질게요. 그때 당시에는 세상을 바꾸고 싶던 Ye였고, 지금도 그를 다시 만나서 시카고 얘기를 하고 싶어요. 더 많은 얘기를 할 수 있지만 여기서 시작하는 거죠.

Yeah, but I'm not gonna back down into that. I'm not gonna let myself off easy by saying, "Aw, I met with Trump just 'cause I was going through something." I ain't gonna give the universe that. Nah, ima face it, and they gonna face me. This was the Ye that wanted to do something to change something, and I would meet with him today, and I would talk about Chicago, first. Talk about some more things, we could eventually get into a lot of, you know, elements. But, we start there.


샬라메인그는 흑인들에 대한 관심이 있는  같으세요

Do you think he cares about black people?


칸예: 어떻게 생각하시는데요? 아, 저한테 한 질문을 되묻지는 않을게요. 다른 사람이 저한테 그럴 때 짜증 나거든요.

What do you think? Nah, I'm not even gonna hit you with a question to your question. I hate when people do that to me.


샬라메인물어보셔도 돼요그때 그분을 만나셨을  그는 대통령의 역할을 하고 있지 않았어요지금까지도 도널드 트럼프가 정권에 들어온 이후 좋은 일이 하나도 없었죠나이키가 당신만의 무언가를 짓지 못하게 해서 나이키를 떠나셨다고 했는데도널드 트럼프는 모든 사람들이 자신만의 것을 만들 수밖에 없는 상황을 만드는  같아요그게  다르죠.

You could ask me though. 'Cause it was early on when you met with him, he hadn't even really been, you know, acting president, now he's got a year under the belt, nothing good has come of Donald Trump being in the White House other than people starting to build their own. Like, you talked about when you left Nike 'cause Nike wouldn't allow you to build your own, but I think Donald Trump is forcing us to build our own. There's a difference.


칸예: 저는 지금 제 집 뒷마당에 풍경을 만들고 있어요, 이건 돈 많은 흑인만 할 수 있는 거예요. 저 나무들을 심고 아름다움을 추가하기 전에, 그 자리에 있던 걸 다 부셔야 했어요. 그 과정 없이 계속 아름다움과 완벽함만 추구하면, 오바마가 사람들과 악수를 하며 땅에 발이 닿지도 않은 채로 복도를 떠다니는 거와 마찬가지예요. 이런 흑인 완벽함에 대해 얘기하고 싶었어요. 흑인은 절대 대중의 눈에 실수를 보이면 안 돼요, 그건 지배고 통제예요. 저는 여기 불완전함을 보여주려는 거예요, 완벽하지 않은 것의 아름다움과 가능성.

Bro, I'm doing my landscape in the back of my crib, rich nigga shit, right. Before we could put all the trees, and add the beauty, you gotta break some things. If you keep on getting just the beauty, just the perfect thing, just the Obama walk through the hallway, it just ... he don't even walk, his feet don't even touch the floor, he just floating, giving everybody a handshake and all that. You know what I mean, you get all of these images, this is what it is. This is what I wanted to talk about, the idea of black perfection. Like a black person can't be imperfect in the public eye. That's a form of control. I'm here to show you imperfection, the beauty is in the imperfection that this is possible.


샬라메인무슨 얘기를 하고 싶으신지 알아요버락에 대해 다들 얘기하던 거니까요버락은 완벽해야만 했어요왜냐면 그가 완벽하지 않았다면 다시는 흑인 대통령이 나오지 않을 테니까맞죠?

Listen, I know exactly what you're saying, that's what they used to say about Barack. Barack had to be perfect 'cause if he wasn't perfect, then we probably would never get another one. You know?


칸예: 버질의 상황과 비슷하지 않나요? 다음에 트위터에도 올리고 싶었던 얘기인데, 산꼭대기에 인생에서 필요한 도구들이 다 있어요. “성공하려면 저 도구들이 필요해”라는 생각을 갖고 산을 오르기 시작하는데, 산을 오르려면 그 도구들이 필요해요. 그것들 없이 산을 오르기 시작하고 꼭대기에 도착했을 때는 이미 그 도구들보다 많은 걸 갖고 있는 상태일 거예요. 버질과 함께 이 얘기를 1시간 동안 하면서 패션도 이 상황과 비슷하다고 생각했어요. 제가 구찌와 루이비통을 좋아했던 이유가 뭘까요? 톰 포드도요. 저는 그 회사의 아티스트를 좋아했던 거예요. 구찌는 아티스트들을 위해 플랫폼을 만들어줬고, 마크 제이콥스와 루이비통도 그들에게 기회를 줬어요. 당신들이 모르는 또 다른 전쟁터예요. 프랑수아 피노, 베르나르 아르노.

That’s like the Virgil situation, right? Like, I got this thing that I'm gonna tweet later, that I wrote on my retreat that was, um, you know, you look at this mountaintop and at the top of the mountain is all these tools for life. You say, "I need these tools in order to win at life," so you proceed to climb up the mountain, but you need tools in order to get up the mountain, to climb up. By the time you get to the top of the mountain, you've got more tools than was at the top. And that's what I figured out about fashion, you know, I talked to Virgil for an hour. You know, I realized that the concept of luxury and all this is … what did I love about Gucci, what did I love about Louis Vuitton? I loved Tom Ford. I loved the artist. And Gucci created a platform for the artist. I love Mark Jacobs and Louis Vuitton created a platform for the artist. It's a battle that y'all don't know about. Francois Pinault, Bernard Arnault.


샬라메인저는  사람들이 누군지 몰라요

I don't know who those people are.


칸예: 프랑수아 피노는 발렌시아가와 구찌, 베르나르 아르노는 패션계에서 제일 돈이 많은 분이에요. 그의 집에 가본 적도 있고 함께 일을 해본 적도 있는데, 제 아이돌 중에 한 명이에요, 제이 지와 마찬가지로. 왜냐면 문화가 존재하기 전에 문화를 만든 사람이거든요. 세인트 마틴스에 있던 루이스 윌슨의 학생 존 갈리아노 같은 사람을 인터넷으로 고용할 수 있기도 전에 플랫폼을 만들었고, 마크 제이콥스도 고용했어요. 비전이 있는 사람인 거죠. 제 아이돌이에요, 그의 에너지가 느껴지고 그도 저를 좋아해요. 패션 아이콘을 키우는 메인 학교 두 곳이 있어요. 뉴욕의 파슨스와 런던에 있는 세인트 마틴스예요. 그곳에서 많이들 채용을 하죠. 하지만 칸예 웨스트의 학교 돈다 출신 버질이 이제 그 모든 것을 돌파하고 있어요.

Francois Pinault is Balenciaga and Gucci. Bernard Arnault is the richest person in fashion. This is the head of the LVMH group. Like, I've been to his house before, I've shooken hands to do a deal before, with this man. And he's one of my idols, just like Jay-Z. He's cold. You know, 'cause he made culture before there was culture. 'Cause he set the platform before there was internet to hire John Galliano from St. Martins, one of Louise Wilson's students, hire Marc Jacobs. He had the vision. This man is a visionary. You know. He is one of my idols. I love Bernard. I feel his energy. He loves me also. So, this is how it works. They have two main schools that have raised the fashion icons, Parson in New York and St. Martins in London. Bernard, I know, and Pinault, that's their recruiting, you know, camp. They go there. And now, the breakthrough with Virgil is now we have someone who's come from Donda, who's come from the school of Kanye West.


샬라메인실망하셨었나요버질이 새로운 직장을 찾았을  기분이 이상하셨다고 했는데서운하셨나요왜냐면 당신도 루이비통이나 구찌에서 창조를 해보고 싶다고 하셨었잖아요.

Did, uh, did it upset you? Because you said you had mixed emotions when Virgil, uh, got the job. Did it upset you? Because that's something that you wanted, like you was verbal about wantin' in on one of these fashion houses and being able to create for a Louis Vuitton or Gucci.


칸예: 아까 얘기했던 산꼭대기에 위치한 도구들과 마찬가지인 거죠. 그 과정에서 다른 도구들을 찾고, 그 여행을 통해서 필요한 걸 얻는 거예요. 이제 공장들도 있고, 제가 만들어낸 사람이 루이비통을 이끌고 있다는 것만으로 제 자신도 증명이 된 거죠.

Well, what's the thing we said about, you know, the tools at the top of the mountain. You know, in the process, you gain all the tools, it's the journey, and the journey you gain everything you need. Now, we got factories, it's, you know, there is some … we talk about validation, need or not need for validation … there is some validation in the fact that, um, someone that I came up with is now the head of Louis Vuitton.


샬라메인버질이  직업을 시작하기 전에 당신에게 알렸었나요전화가 왔었나요아니면 저희와 마찬가지로 인터넷을 통해 소식을 들었나요?

Did Virgil call you before he took the job? 'Cause that was something that you wanted, so did he call you? Like, let me at least consult with Ye, or ask Ye if is something I should do. Or did you hear about it on the internet like the rest of us?


칸예: 인터넷에 보도되기 한 2분 전에 전화가 왔었죠.

No, he made the call two minutes before it hit the internet.


 

샬라메인저는 패션에 대해 아는  하나도 없어 그런데버질은  그렇게 성공적인 브랜드를 떠난 건가요?

Explain to me, 'cause I don't know nothin' about fashion. So why would Virgil leave a brand that seems to be successful-


칸예: 오프 화이트요. 

Off-White.


샬라메인아직도 커가고 있는 회사인데 이미 자리를 잡은 루이비통에 갔을까 궁금해요 자신의 자원을 활용해서 오프 화이트를 다음 명품 브랜드로 만들진 않은 건가요?

It seems to be growing. You know what I mean, why would you leave that brand to go work for a Louis Vuitton, or a brand that's already established. Like, why wouldn't you pool your resources and try to make Off-White that next, high-end luxury brand?


칸예: 오프 화이트가 5개, 10개의 매장이 있다면 루이비통은 2,000개가 있으니까요. 마치 대통령의 직업을 받는 거죠. 정말 많은 건물들 위에 트럼프의 이름이 쓰여있지만, 그는 그래도 대통령직에 나섰어요. 저도 마찬가지로 아디다스의 수석 디자이너 포지션의 제안이 온다면, 10억 달러의 가치를 갖고 한창 커가고 있는 제 브랜드와 상관없이 받을 거예요. 왜냐면 아디다스와 그 많은 매장들을 이끈다는 건 완전히 다른 얘기니까요.

’Cause Off-White has five, ten store, Louis Vuitton has 2000 stores. It's like taking the job as a president. You know- you know, Trump, you see Trump's name on all type of buildings, but he still took the job as president. You have like, you know, those conversations about a creative director role for me at Adidas. It's like okay, I got my brand, it's this billion dollar brand, this unicorn company, it's growing, but to be able to go, and be able to direct Adidas and all those stores, is another conversation.


샬라메인대통령이 되고 2,000개의 매장이 생기면 그게 오프 화이트의 성장을 도와주기도 하나요?

Because, like you said, you become president, so now you over 2000 stores as opposed to focusin' on this one, does that help Off-White grow? Maybe?


칸예: 당연하죠. 오프 화이트의 주가는 그가 루이비통에 가자마자 올랐어요. 증명도 되었고. 

Hell yeah. Price of Off-White went up soon as he went to Louis Vuitton. Not the price, but the value of it. The validation of it.


샬라메인근데 백인들한테 그런 증명을  받아야 하는 건가요아님 부자들한테서.

Why do we always need validation from white people? Or rich people.


칸예: 왜냐면 저희의 슈퍼맨 망토는 3살 때 빼앗겼으니까요. 저희는 망가졌고, 흡수되었어요. BMW를 갖고 싶고, 좋은 집을 짓고 싶고, 와이프를 위해 드레스도 사주고 싶죠. 아이들을 학교에 보내야 하고, 챔피언 트로피를 받고 싶고, 주얼리도 사고 싶어요. 이렇게 많은 것을 하고 싶어 하잖아요, 이런 사회에 흡수되어 있으니까. 구찌를 입고 싶다는 사람을 말릴 수는 없지만, 저는 병원에 다닐 때도 러셀 후디 하나 걸치고 다녔어요. 사람들이 거지 같다고 해도 브랜드를 입고 다니지 않는 건 제 자신감이에요. 브랜드 이름을 보면, 저는 불안정함이 보여요. 돈 주고 안정감을 사는 거죠, 보호받기 위해서나 배지를 달기 위해. 이지 브랜드의 목적과 저희가 애쓰고 있는 건 최고의 인재들과 함께 물건들을 낮은 가격에 맞추는 거예요, 아직 못 이뤄냈지만. 저희는 명품이 되는 거에 관심 없고, 명품의 개념 자체를 바꾸고 싶어요. 저는 명품이 공간이고 시간이라고 생각해요. 친구들도 명품이고, 자신만의 비전을 따르는 것도 명품이죠. 무언갈 살 수 있는 능력도 명품이라 볼 수 있고, 들어가서 “아, 이거 살 수 있겠네”라고 말할 수 있는 게 명품이죠.

Because our cape got taken away when we was three years old. We're broken. We in assimilation. We want our BMW. We want our house that- we want to pay all our money for the house. We want to buy this dress for our wife. We wanna do this- we want to get our kids in school- we want- you know, we want this championship trophy, we want this jewelry. We want all these different things. Like, people- we not monks, we in the assimilation. We in it. You know what I'm sayin', I can't talk nobody outta wearin' Gucci, and you know this is me, you know, I had to come out of the other side of the hospital and have like a Russel sweatshirt on, or somethin' like that. That's me, like people be callin' me like homeless all the time, but this is my confidence where I don't wear branding like that and put words and dada. So, I can- but everyone, they have to have that confidence. Like, when I see branding, I see insecurity, you know, I see- and I see people buying- you know buying security, you know buying it back through a brand, you know, protection, a badge. Just to put the agenda for a second, of Yeezy and what we're doin' out is- our mission, and what we fought for is to be able to take the best talents in the world and you know land that price point, which we haven't done yet. But we're not interested in the concept of high fashion. You know, the concept of luxury- I'm changin' the idea of luxury. I think luxury is space. I think luxury is time. Friends are a luxury. Getting your vision out is a luxury. The ability to afford something is the luxury. Not to not be able to afford it. To go in and be like, "oh, I can afford this." That's the luxury.


샬라메인바로 그게 모두가 사랑하는 Ye이죠사람다운 Ye, 브랜드를 넘어서   것들을 신경 쓰는 Ye. 가족친구시간저희가 모두 갖고 있는 것들그런 것들이 의미 있는 거고  상관없이 가질  있는 거죠.

That’s the Ye everybody fell in love with though, that Ye who was so human, that Ye who cared about things bigger than brands, you know. So, now he talkin' about family, now he talkin' about friends, now he talkin' about time, like- those are something we all have, those are valuables that we all possess regardless of what our finances are.


칸예: 네, 그리고 패션을 시작한 이유는 거기서 비싼 것들을 팔기 위해서 가 아니에요. 패션에서 일하는 사람들은 대부분 매우 민감한 사람들인데, 그들을 대중과 함께 할 수 있는 공간에 데려다주고 싶었어요. 이지는 결국 기부하는 회사가 될 거예요. 만약에 재난이 일어난다면 옷과 물을 가져다줄 거고, 300불에 팔릴 수 있는 티셔츠를 그냥 나눠줄 거예요. 저희는 결국 그렇게 될 거예요. 5년, 10년 뒤에 이지는 제일 큰 의류 기부 시설이 될 거고, 매년 나이키에 갈만한 한 명, 두 명, 세명, 아님 10명을 데려올 거예요. 칼라바사스에 가서 공장을 지을 거죠.

Yeah. And that's the thing that we had to crack the code- we- the reason why we went into fashion wasn't to stay there or be there or just do, you know, cool, high price stuff. It was actually to take the incredible HSP, highly sensitive people, that usually end up in a fashion house and bring them to some place where they could consistently connect with the public. Yeezy eventually will be, you know, closer to like a relief company. Like, if there's a disaster, we're gonna dress, you know, we're gonna bring clothes and water, you know, the same design perspective that can sell a $300 t-shirt, we're just gonna give it. And, eventually, that's who we'll be. You'll look up, five, ten years from now and Yeezy will be the biggest service provider of apparel and one by one, every year, we're gonna take one, two, three, ten people that woulda normally ended up in a fashion house- went to Nike- woulda went other places, and we're going to Calabasas, we building factories.


샬라메인지금 여기 앉아서 얘기를 들어보니까 4 전의 칸예는 명품 브랜드에서 일을 하고 있었을 수도 있는데지금의 칸예는  일을 거부할  같아요.  

That's dope. I- you know I'm sittin' here listenin' to you talkin', you know, I feel like Kanye from four year ago would have taken the job at the fashion house. I don't feel like the Kanye I'm talkin' to right now would take that job at the fashion house.


칸예: 제 아내와 제 아들, 그리고 제 딸들에서부터 멀어지는 직업을 갖기엔 지금 너무 좋은 공간에 있어요. 말이 안 되는 일이죠. 뭐를 위해서? 가족이 제일 중요한 가치예요. 플로디아에 살고 있는 사촌이 있는데, 최대한 가족들을 가까이하려고 노력하고 있어요. 킴이 병원에 다니지 않아도 되는 이유 중 하나죠, 그녀의 가족이 다 가까이 있으니까.

I am in too good of a position to take a job where I have to be away from my wife, and my son, and my daughters. That just don't make no sense. For what? Family is your most important currency. I got a cousin that lived in Florida- I flew out here. I'm tryin' to get as much family as close to me as possible. That's one of the reasons why Kim won't end up in a hospital. She got her family close.

 

샬라메인지금은 당신의 예술로 많은 것들을 바꿀  있다고 생각하세요

You feel like you in a position to change things now, with your art? Like really change things?


칸예: 항상 그렇게 생각했어요. 그게 제 역할이고, 단지 조금 집중력을 잃었던 거뿐이에요. 이 음악 시장은 딱 차를 살 만큼, 아이들을 키울 만큼, 집을 살 만큼, 그러고 나서 죽을 때까지 투어를 돌아다닐 운명인 거 같아요. 부자가 되는 사람보다 바보가 되는 사람이 훨씬 많죠.

I always was. You know, that's my place in the universe, I've just been distracted. You know, like the music industry is set up for you to have just enough money to afford a car, pay for your kids, a house, and be on tour for the rest of your life till you die. You know, more people end up retarded than rich.


샬라메인빚을 지고 있다는 사실 때문에 자신감을 잃었나요

Do you feel like when you was in debt, did that contribute to your lack of confidence?


칸예: 아니요. 

Nah.


샬라메인다행이네요돈으로 잃을 자신감이 아니죠매니저 이지가 얼마  일을 그만뒀는데무슨 일이었죠

I’m glad to hear you say that. 'Cause that makes me think damn some money is what made him feel confident. Izzy. You just parted with Izzy. What was that about?


칸예: 저는 관리할 수 있는 사람이 아닌 것 같아요. 그리고 저는 매니저를 완전히 믿고 모든 걸 맡기는 스타일이에요, 비즈니스 매니저를 고용하고 매니저가 투어 계약, 집 계약, 모든 걸 할 수 있게 맡겨놔요. 그러는 순간 갇히는 거예요, 더 이상 자신의 인생을 스스로 통제할 수 없고 다른 사람에게 쉽게 조작당할 수 있는 상태가 돼요. 폴 매카트니와 작업하던 앨범이 갑자기 리아나와의 싱글로 발매될 수도 있는 거죠, 한 지각에 갇혀있는 음악 시장이니까요. 왜냐면 아티스트들은 결국 비즈니스예요. 아티스트들은 매니저가 필요하고, 그들만의 CEO가 필요해요. 지금 제가 하는 발언에 많은 사람들이 동의해주지는 않겠지만, 그냥 제 생각을 얘기할게요. 지금 경영 대학원에 다니고 있는 아이들이 총 몇 명일까요? 와튼이나 하버드. 그리고 트래비스 스캇이나 우지 같은 아티스트들을 생각해봐요. 지금 우지와 트래비스 스캇 같은 사람은 몇 명이 있을까요? 경영 대학원에 다니고 있는 사람보다 훨씬 적겠죠. 그러니까 트래비스 스캇은 드롭박스가 처음 시작했을 때만큼의 직원이 필요한 거예요, 100억 달러의 가치로 상장될 수 있도록. 근데 아티스트와 예술에 상장이 무슨 의미겠어요? 다들 저를 이용할 생각만 하는걸요.

I just can't be managed. And I would just trust the manager, let them do everything, let them handle everything, let them handle, you know, let them hire a business manager and this and that, and you get a manager and manager on manager and then it becomes one big racket where it's like the tour guy is talkin' to the label guy is talkin' to the manager is talkin' to the guys that sold you the house that talks to your- And then you're just trapped, you're not in control of your life anymore, and at that point you could be easily manipulated. You know, a whole album with Paul McCartney can end up becoming a single for Rihanna because, you know, you're trapped in this box of the idea of your perception, music industry, this, that, that. Because artists are businesses. We're not just artists. Artists shouldn't have managers, artists should have CEOs. That's how I feel, I didn't put no thought in that, you know, it's like, you know, so there's a lot of people that's gonna have a problem with that statement. I'm gonna say how I feel. So that means okay how many kids are going to business school right now? Wharton, Harvard. You think they like, let's take somebody like Travis Scott, alright, they probably listen to his music. Uzi, somebody like that, right. How many Uzis and Travis Scotts are there and how many business people are there? I'm gonna think it's probably less Travis Scotts and Uzis than there are business people. So when you think a Travis Scott would deserve the same amount of employees as Dropbox in its first year, so that someday he can IPO for 10 billion like my friend Drew just did with Dropbox. But with artistry and artists, what's the point where you IPO? Everyone want to talk to me about gettin' out. I'm out.

 

샬라메인: 300에이커이게  당신 거라고요?

So all this is yours. 300 acres.

 


칸예: 맞습니다. 

Yes, sir.


샬라메인이걸로  하실 거예요?

And what you gonna do with it?


칸예: 5개의 건물을 지을 거예요, 제 첫 커뮤니티죠. 개발하는 걸 시작해보려고요. 제 집에 와본 사람이라면 건축하는 거에 관심이 많다는 걸 알 거예요.

I’m gonna build five properties, so it's my first community. I'm gettin' into development. I sup- anybody whose ever been to any of my cribs knows I'm super into developin' homes.


샬라메인그래서 부츠도 디자인하시는 거예요등산할  있게?

So that's why you designin' boots and shit? So you can do the hiking?


칸예: 네, 이지 부츠를 나이키가 샀어야 하는데 말이에요.

Yeah, see you got the Nike shoulda had the Yeezy boots, you know.


샬라메인나이키 신발로 등산 못하죠근데 정말  300에이커의 땅을 갖고 커뮤니티를 짓는다는  정말 놀라워요칸예 웨스트는 다른 사람 필요 없네요다시 트럼프 얘기로 돌아가는데트럼프도 만날 필요 없었네요당신만의 나라의 대통령이네요.

Nikes is trash for hiking. But listen it's crazy though 'cause you got this whole plan, 300 acres of land, you want to build a community on it. Why does Kanye West don't need anybody. So that goes back to what we was talking about with Trump. You don't need to meet with Trump. You, you Ye. You head of state of your own shit.


칸예: 네, 근데 저는 변화를 사랑해요. 평범한 걸 거부하는 것도 좋아하고요. 트럼프를 증오하는 사람들을 사랑하기도 하지만, 모든 사람들이 목소리를 내고 자신의 의견을 표출하고 있다는 게 너무 좋아요. 저는 이 순간만을 기다려왔어요. 새가 창문에 부딪히는 거 본 적 있으세요?

Yeah. I feel that. You know. But. I love real change. I love, you know, challenging the norm. I love people who don't love him. I love the fact that they speakin' up and everybody's just giving their opinions. Everybody's expressing themselves. I love that. I've been waitin' for this moment in time. This is just like a Ye moment in time and stuff. You ever see a bird fly into a window?


샬라메인당연하죠.  

Hell yeah.


칸예: 그게 유리인지 모르고 그러는 거예요. 그게 저였어요. 제가 병원에 부딪혔을 때, 새가 창문으로 날아드는 거나 마찬가지였어요.

They don' know it's glass. That was me. When I hit that hospital, that was a bird flyin' into the window.


샬라메인그런 일이 다시 일어날까  두려우세요무너지거나 자신을 돌파하는 경험?

Are you scared of that happening again? You having a breakdown or breakthrough?


칸예: 아니요, 그런 일이 있어서 행복해요. 반대편과 뒤편에서 세상을 바라보는 것도 좋은 경험이었어요. 근데 꼭 다시 짚어내고 싶은 순간이 있어요. 병원 침대에 누워있을 때 옆에 있는 친구들을 계속 거기 있게 해줬으면 해요. 저를 엘리베이터에 넣고 제 곁에 있던 사람들을 다 보냈거든요. 제가 살면서 경험한 제일 두려웠던 순간이에요.

Nah. Nah. I'm happy it happened. I'm happy to see- have gone to the other side and back. You know there's some things when it happened I do want to- I want to speak on. I want to point out the moment when you in the hospital bed and your next to your friend and you tell them, don't let this person leave my side. And they put you inside of a elevator and take all your friends away from you. That was the scariest moment of my life.


샬라메인약을 타서 주거나 죽일  아셨어요?

What you thought they was gonna drug you or kill you? 


칸예: 정말 죽을 줄 알았어요. 그 당시에 와이프가 근처에 없어서, 제 친구 던에게 와이프가 도착할 때까지 옆에 있어달라고 했어요. 근데 옆에 더 이상 못 있게 하는 순간이 와요, 그건 정말 바뀌어야 돼요. 비교를 하자면 임신한 여성이 진통을 하고 있다면 곁에 그녀의 사람들, 언니들이나 아버지, 다 아이를 출산할 때까지 옆에 있게 해주잖아요.

I thought I was gonna get killed. And- you know my wife wasn't in town so I told my boy, Don, like don't leave my side until my wife gets here. And they have this moment where they're forced to leave your side. That's something that has to change. You know if like- if a pregnant woman is delivering a baby, guarantee, whoever the people, her sisters, the dad, they get to stay next to them till the baby is delivered.


샬라메인그런 상황이라면 절대 와이프 곁을  떠나겠죠

I’m not leaving my wife in that situation.


칸예: 네, 편집증 환자로서 더욱더. 아무것도 믿지 못하고, 다 시뮬레이션처럼 보이고, 모두 가짜 같고 연기 같으면 정말 말도 안 되는 상황이에요. 유일하게 믿을 수 있는 친구들을 옆에 못 있게 할 때면 그 순간이 얼마나 두려운지 말로 표현 못 해요. 그다음엔 약에 취한 상태로 다시 일어나는 거죠.

Yeah. HSP, you are paranoid of everything. You don't believe nothin', you just seein' through all of the simulation, everybody's phony, everybody's an actor. All this shit. And then they make your friends, the only people you believe in leave your side. I can't express to you, like, how traumatizing that moment is. And then you wake up drugged the fuck out.


샬라메인약물치료도 하신 거네요

Mm-hmm Did they- So they put you on medication.


칸예: 네.

Yeah.


샬라메인지금도 복용 중이세요?

Are you still on any now?


칸예: 네, 당연하죠. 

Oh, most definitely.


샬라메인정말요어떤 것들이요?

Word? What they got you on?


칸예: 그건 말 못 하죠.

I ain't gonna say.


샬라메인약이 도움이 되긴 하나요어떤 약인지 말씀  해주셔도 되는데도움이 되나요?

Does the medication help? I mean, you don't want to tell us what it is, but does it help?


칸예: 완벽한 해결책은 아니지만 진정시켜주는 효과는 있어요. 하지만 진정하는 방법도 여러 가지 있죠.

Um. It's an imperfect solution, to just calm me down. But there's a lot of ways to calm down.


샬라메인저는 얌전한 Ye 원하지 않아요얌전한 Ye  필요해요

I don't want a “Calm-ye." What do we need a "Calm-ye" for? 


칸예: Ye를 Ye대로 내버려 둬.

Let Ye be Ye. You know, um.


샬라메인그게 당신의 초능력의 일부분을 빼앗아가는  같지는 않으세요?

Don’t you think that takes a little bit of your super power away though?


칸예: 안정되고 통제되어 있는 거에서 오는 힘도 있죠. 엑스맨이나 슈퍼맨도 자신의 힘을 정말 잘 이해하고 있어요. 건축, 랩, 투어, 디자인, 사업, 아이디어, 다음 세대, 불가능이란 없어요. 저는 그저 많은 혈관들 중 하나일 뿐이고, 이 세계에서 제가 하인으로서 해야 할 일이죠. 저는 제 자신이어야 해요, Ye가 아니면 별로 도움이 못되잖아요.

It’s power in being controlled and calm. You know, X-men really understanding how to use his power, or Superman, that's me. Building, acres, rap, stadium tours, designs, companies, ideas, the next generations, like everything is possible, you know, and I'm just a vessel, and that's my job in the universe, as a servant to the world, I have to be me. I'm not as good of a servant if I'm not Ye.


샬라메인와이프와 시어머니그리고  가족의 라이프 스타일이 당신의 기분에 영향을 주나요부담스러울 때도 있나요왜냐면 이미 슈퍼스타인데 면에 추가하는 거니까 사생활이 없을  같아요항상 파파라치도 근처에 있고요.

Do you feel like the lifestyle of your wife, the mother-in-law, the whole family, do you think that plays a role in how you were feelin'? Like, did it get to be too much? Cause you already a superstar, but you take that superstar element and add it and then it's just- when do you have privacy. Like, it seem like paparazzi is always around.


칸예: 네, 파파라치 정말 신경 쓰이죠. 그래도 다 내적 평온으로부터 찾을 수 있는 거잖아요, 그렇죠?Yeah, paparazzi, it can stress you out. But it's all in the inner peace that you can find. You know?


샬라메인아무도 믿지 못한다고 하셨는데가족은 믿으세요왜냐면 인생을  스토리로 본다면 그들이 배신하지 않을 거라는 믿음이 있으세요?

You said you don't trust people, do you trust your in-laws? 'Cause it seem- you know we look at the world and seems like everything is a storyline, do you trust that they won't turn your life and what you're going through into a story line?


칸예: 애매한 답변은 못 드리는 거 아시죠?

Uh. And, you know, of course I'm gonna give you a slick answer on that 'cause, I'm like …


샬라메인: 집에 가셔야 하니까요!

You gotta go home!


칸예: 집에 가야죠! 뭘 기대하신 거예요. 근데 지금 이 순간에도 이야기의 한 부분을 써 내려가고 있는 거잖아요. 제 와이프가 대화를 하거나 기록을 하는 방식들이 좋아요. 아티스트로서 지금 현재 자신의 모습을 기록해두는 게 중요하다고 생각해요. 다른 상황에서, 다른 인생에서도 알아볼 수 있도록.

I got to go home! What you expect. But like right now, we writing part of the story, you know, just by even doing this and speaking. I like the way that my wife communicates and documents things. You know, as an artist I think it's good to document ourselves, document our now, see if we can recognize ourselves again in a different light- in a different life.

 


샬라메인대학교 자퇴생 칸예가 지금의 모습을 본다면 뭐라고 할까요

What would um, what would college drop out Kanye, if he was looking at pictures of Kanye now, what would he say?


칸예: 행복해할 것 같아요, 만족스럽고, 무엇보다 믿을 것 같아요. 사람들은 항상 “정말? 믿을 수 없어”라는 반응을 보이잖아요. 저는 항상 믿었어요. 지금 기록되고 있는 40살의 저는 대학교 자퇴생 Ye예요. 그리고 우리는 제 땅 위에 서있죠. 

I think he'd be happy, satisfied and he would believe it. You how people say, "oh, I wouldn't believe it." I always believed it. I always know what it is. You know this documentation right now, this is just the age 40, this is a version of the college dropout Ye. We standin' on my first property.


샬라메인: 300에이커

300 acres.


칸예: 네, 제일 큰 부동산 개발업자가 될 거예요, 하워드 휴즈가 비행기를, 그리고 헨리 포드가 차를 만들어 낸 것처럼. 제 건물들과 저의 관계, 공간과 비율에 대한 이해력, 그리고 그냥 이 기분, 이 에너지. 이제 평범한 맨션들은 질렸어요, 집도 다 별로고 마음에 드는 것도 몇 개 없어요.

Yeah. So, I'm going to be one of the biggest real estate developers of all time, like what Howard Hughes was to aircraft and what Henry Ford was to cars. And, just that the relationships that I have with architects, my understanding of space and sacred proportions, just this vibe, this new vibe, this energy, like I'm tired of the McMansions, all the Spanish roof homes and stuff like that like, that shit wack, bro. Like everybody house, wack, it's trash, bro. I don't go to- like Howard Backen or something is like the- one of the few architects that I like their homes.


샬라메인 그래도 앞으로의 계획이 어떻게 되시는지 물어보려던 참이었어요왜냐면 Ye 항상 무엇이 될지 예측했었으니까요앞으로의 목표가 그거예요?

I was going to ask you what's next. Because Ye's always predicted what he was going to be. So that's the goal?


칸예: 네, 도시를 지을 거예요.

Yeah, we're going to develop cities.

 

-- 

[Interview by]: Charlamagne tha God

[Translation by]: HIPHOPPLAYA 이승연 (lsy@hiphopplaya.com)

2
Comments
2
2020-08-07 14:58:07

와..이렇게 많은 양을 번역하셨다니
칸예팬으로써 너무 감사합니다
영어실력이 완벽치않아 이거 처음에 영상만보고 이해하기 힘들었는데 너무 감사합니다
앞으로도 많은 번역인터뷰 기대할게요!

2020-09-05 01:46:12

감사합니다 ㅎㅎ

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