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OPENMIC
[인터뷰 번역] Dr Dre & Jimmy Iovine의 인생 교훈
 
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2020-07-23 21:25:26

 

 

닥터 드레: 저는 그저 사람들한테 영감을 주고 싶어요. 몇 년 후에도 자극이 되는 그런 흔적과 유산을 여기 남기고 싶어요. 

I just want to inspire. I just want to be an inspiration, I want to leave a mark and a legacy here that’s just inspiring for years to come. 


 

[닥터 드레와 지미 아이오빈의 인생 교훈]

[Life lessons from Dr Dre & Jimmy Iovine]


Q: 둘이 얼마나 자주 보시나요?

How often do you see each other? 


지미 아이오빈: 1-2주 사이에 한번 보는 것 같은데 대화는 매일 나눠요. 

It’s got a once a week kind of vibe, or once in every two weeks kind of vibe, but we talk almost every day. 


 

[우정 vs 파트너십: “우리는 대화를 나눌 때마다 박장대소를 해요”]

[Friendship vs partnership: “Every time we talk, there’s a belly laugh] 


드레: 매일 대화를 나누는 거는 물론이고 그때마다 웃어요. 거의 30년이 다 돼가는데, 매번 얘기를 할 때마다 웃게 돼요, 정말 박장대소를 할 만큼. 

Not only do we talk every day, we laugh. It’s almost 30 years, and every single time we talk there’s some kind of laugh, and I’m talking about a belly laugh. 


아이오빈: 사실이에요. 저를 포함해서 아무도 이해 못 할 것 같은데, 정말 흥미롭고 재밌는 사실 중 하나는 저희는 한 번도 말다툼이 생긴 적이 없다는 거에요. 드레는 자신이 뭘 하고 있는지 명확히 알고, 제가 뭘 하는지도 알고, 저도 드레가 무엇을 하는지 알죠. 그래서 둘이 동의하지 못하는 부분이 생긴다면 그냥 그 주제에 대해 더 잘 아는 사람의 입장을 이해하려고 해요. 

It’s really true. Nobody understands and neither do I, but what we find fascinating—one of the interesting things about our relationship—we never really had an argument. He knows what he does, he knows what I do, I know what he does, and if we don’t agree, we just take on the other person who knows more about that particular thing. 


드레: 이런 관계, 이런 우정을 상상해보세요. 이런 게 또 있을까요? 

Imagine a relationship like that, a friendship. Do you know any others?

 

 

아이오빈: 저희는 운도 좋았죠. 동업자의 입장에서 일하고, 동업자인 것도 맞고, 동업자의 형태도 갖고 있어요. 근데 "The Defiant Ones”에서 보인 것처럼 제가 미국에 충격을 받은 것들 중 하나는 백인과 흑인이 같이 비즈니스를 시작한다는 게 정말 흔하지 않다는 거에요. 왜 이런 큰 사업을 시작한 사례가 저희밖에 없을까요?   

And we got lucky. Absolutely, it works like a partnership, it is a partnership, it behaviors like a partnership, it’s structured as a partnership. What always shocked me about America and what they did capture in "The Defiant Ones,” clearly Alan’s original idea was that I don’t know why white guy and a black guy doesn’t start more businesses together. Why are we the only people that ever built a big business?


드레: 정말 이상한 거에요. 이렇게 긴 시간 동안 이런 일이 생긴 게 처음이라는 건 말도 안되는거에요. 

It’s crazy. It’s crazy that this is the first time that this has happened for this amount of time. 


아이오빈: 물론 같이 일을 시작한 사람들이 아예 없지는 않겠죠, 하지만 저희는 전 세계 1위 헤드폰 회사를 만들었고 더 나아가서 애플 뮤직까지 만들어냈어요. 왜냐면 같이 일하게 될 때 합쳐지는 그 두 문화의 화합은 정말 놀랍거든요. 저는 개인적으로 흑인 문화가 충분히 이용되지 않고 있고, 자원이 부족하고, 갖고 있는 가치만큼 인정을 못 받고 있는 미국의 중요한 자산이라고 생각해요. 제 입장은 그래요.  

Other people have done it, got work together and stuff, but we built the number one headphone company in the world then we went and built Apple music. Because when you bring each other, it’s crazy, the different culture, how they work together. I consider African American culture, black culture, the most underutilized, under-resourced, and under-appreciated asset that America has. So that’s where I come from.


드레: 그리고 오늘날까지 그 잠재력은 충분히 활용되지 않고 있어요. 그건 분명해요. 

And it still hasn’t been taken to its full potential. Period. 


 

[투지와 동기부여: “한순간도 허슬 하지 않았던 적이 없는  같아요”] 

[Drive and motivation: “I don’t remember ever not having to hustle”] 


아이오빈: 드레와 저는 저희의 학교에 열정을 쏟고 있어요. 그리고 저희의 포기하지 말자는 태도까지. 하지만 그거에 맞는 교육과정이 있어야 했어요, 왜냐면 허슬만을 외치고 포기하지 말라는 얘기만으로 지난 150년간 바뀌지 않은 교육과정에 아이들을 넣어두면 변화는 건 아무것도 없을 테니까요. 

Dre and I try to put our hustle into the schools. And our don’t-quit attitude. But you got to have the right curriculum to do that, because you can’t just say hustle and don’t quit and then go put them in education that hasn’t changed in 150 years.

 

 

드레: 맞아요, 허슬은 학교에서 가르쳐 주지 않아요. 저는 한순간도 허슬 하지 않았던 적이 없는 것 같아요, 신발을 사고 싶으면 나가서 풀을 깎던 해야 했죠. 제가 자라온 곳에서는 특별한 신발을 사고 싶으면 나가서 뭐든 해야 했어요. 그래서 저는 그것을 시작으로 세상 밖으로 나와 뭐든 하고, 갖고 싶은 것들을 모두 갖겠다는 투지가 생겼던 것 같아요. 

Right, schools don’t teach hustle. I never remember not having to hustle. I would go and cut grass just to be able to buy shoes. I came from a place where you had to get out and do your thing if you wanted special shoes, so it started there for me and it just snowballed on to wanting just to be able to get out and do anything, and have anything I want. That’s where I think most of my determination started. 


아이오빈: 저는 남들보다 똑똑하지 않아요, 그저 허슬 할 뿐이에요. 남들보다 고통을 더 잘 참을 수는 있어요, 아마도 그게 특별한 거겠죠.  

I’m not smarter than anybody else; I just hustle. I can take more pain than anybody else, that’s what it is. 


드레: 그 투지, 그리고 성공에 대한 꾸준함과 확신. 흔하지 않은 것들이죠. 

That drive, and that perseverance, and dedication to success is just like, you know. You can’t have that.


아이오빈: 누가 얼굴에 파이를 던질 때마다 포기할 수는 없잖아요. 핥아먹거나 닦아내거나하고 계속 앞으로 나아가야 해요. 특별한 거 없어요, 다른 사람보다 똑똑하지 않아도 되고 특출한 재능이 없어도 되는데 더 열심히만 하면 돼요. 

You can’t quit every time a pie comes. You got to lick it or wipe it off your face and keep going. There’s nothing to do, you don’t have to be smarter than the next guy, you better work harder than the next guy; just have reasonable talents. 


 

[비즈니스에 대한 태도: “살아남기 위해 비즈니스를 배웠어요”]

[The business mindset: “I had to learn business in order to survive”] 


아이오빈: 저는 수비를 한 거죠. 음반 제작자로 시작해서 스튜디오 밖 세상이 어떻게 돌아가는지도 몰랐어요. 금융에 대해서 아무것도 몰랐고, 예산 같은 걸 맞춰본 적도 없고, 심지어 손익계산서를 본적도 없었어요. 그래서 저한테는 완전한 수비였어요. 살아남기 위해 비즈니스를 배웠죠.  

Me, it was defense. I was a record producer, I was out there in the studio, and I didn’t know what was going on. I didn’t know anything about finance, I’ve never balanced a budget, and I’ve never looked at a P&L. So to me, it was pure defense. I had to learn business in order to survive. 


드레: 저는 사업적인 면들을 싫어해요. 그저 아티스트이고 싶지만 제가 사랑하는 일을 하려면 제 비즈니스도 신경 써야 한다는 걸 배웠죠. 비즈니스도 해야만 하는데, 좋아하지는 않아요. 저는 창조하는 걸 좋아해요. 

I don’t like the business aspect of it, I just want to be an artist but I know I have to make sure my business is right in order for me to do what I love to do. I have to take care of that, but I don’t like it. I like creating.


아이오빈: 그런데 저도 좋아하지는 않아요. 왜냐면 비즈니스를 하다 보면 멍청한 사람들로부터 세상과 싸우고 있는 자신을 발견하게 되거든요.  

By the way, I also don’t like it. At all. Because in business, what you find yourself doing is wrestling the world from fools. 


 

[멘토의 영향력: “저는 아직 노력 중이고 아직까지도 배우는 중이에요”] 

[The power of mentors: “I’m still pushing and i’m still learning”] 


드레: 저는 혼자 디제잉하는 법을 배우고, 더 나아가서 엔지니어가 하는 일들도 배웠어요. 오직 저 스스로 해결해나가면서 여러 가지를 배우고, 제가 존경하는 사람들의 각기 다른 일부분을 습득한 거죠. 운이 좋게도 저는 혼자 앉아서 제 실력을 키우고 계속 발전시킬 수 있었어요. 오늘날까지도 노력 중이고, 아직 배우고 있는 것들도 있어요. 왜냐면 아직 스스로 더 발전하고 더 나은 것들을 할 수 있을 거라 생각해요. 그게 아직 제게 동기부여가 되는 것들 중 하나인 것 같기도 해요. 

I had to go out and figure out how to DJ, I taught myself how to engineer, and so on. It was just me trying to figure it out and just learning things and picking up different tidbits from people that I admire. Fortunately, I was able to sit and really focus on developing my skill and keep pushing it. I’m still pushing and I’m still learning to this day because I actually feel like I can be better and I can do better things. But maybe that’s just one of the things that drives me still. 


Q: 지미당신은 어떤가요좋은 스승이 있었나요?

What about you, Jimmy? Did you have a good teacher? 


아이오빈: 네, 저는 되게 운이 좋았어요. 브루클린에서 아무 실력 없이 시작했는데, 옷 가게에서 만난 엘리 그린위치라는 분이 저를 녹음실에 취직시켜줬죠. 정말 놀라웠어요. 그리고 그 스튜디오에서 만난 사람들이 결국 제 멘토가 되었고 그분들이 하나부터 열까지 다 가르쳐주셨어요, 콘솔을 만지는 방법까지. 로이 시카라가 존 레논과 함께 작업할 때 저한테 처음 음반 녹음하는 방법을 가르쳐줬어요. 제 뒤에 서서 “잘 봐봐, 내가 이렇게 하고 있잖아, 아니, 아니, 아니, 이렇게 해”라고 하며 저를 통해 작업을 이어나갔죠. 정말 흥미로운 배움의 방식이었어요. 저 녹음실 마이크 뒤에 서있는 건 존 레논이었으니, 더욱더 흥미로웠죠. 데이비드 게펜이라는 분은 이번 주에도 만나 뵙기로 했어요, 항상 비즈니스와 이해심에 대해 많은 얘기들을 해주셨죠. 그분은 사업도 예술의 한 장르로 만들어요, 그에게는 예술이에요. 좋은 미술작품도 많이 수집하시고, 음반 제작사에서도 좋은 사람이었고, 항상 감각이 뛰어나신 분이죠, 사업적인 면에서도 그렇고요. 정말 여러 방면에서 도움을 주신 분이에요. 이번 주에 그분이 계신 데로 비행기를 타고 가요, 항상 같이 앉아서 대화를 나눠요. 

Well, I did. I was very fortunate along the way. I came out of Brooklyn with absolutely no skills, so I got a job (when) I met this girl Ellie Greenwich who really took me from her clothing store and got me a job with three recording studios, which was amazing. And the people in the recording studios taught me—I had to find mentors there–how to do everything from sweep to work a console. This guy Roy Cicala at the record plant taught me, working with John Lennon and through sessions, taught me how to record a record. He literally used to stand over me and say do this. He’d say “I’m doing this, watch me. No, no, no, do this.” And I would do it and he would do it through me, which was a fascinating way to learn. The person on the other side of the microphone was John Lennon, it’s fascinating. I’m going to see him this week, David Geffen. I always check in and he’s been an incredible voice to me about business and understanding. He took business as an art form; it’s an art form to him. He’s a great collector of art, he was a great record company person, he had great taste in everything, but he’s also got great instincts in business. He really helped me in all areas. I’m going to see him this week, I’m flying to where he is because I just sit with him and we just talk. 


드레: 데이비드 게펜은 몇 문장 안되는 말들로 저에게도 많은 도움을 주셨어요. 같은 자리에 있을 기회가 몇 번 없었는데, 그분이 하는 말 한마디 한마디에 ‘아, 나도 저렇게 해야겠다’라는 생각이 들었죠. 

David Geffen helped me out with just a few sentences. I’ve only been around him a few times here and there, but he’ll say a couple of things and it’s just like ‘Oh, okay. I’m going to apply that.’


 

[육아와 가족그리고 비즈니스의 균형: “아이들은 영감의 궁극적인 형태예요”]

[Parenting and balancing business with family: “Kids are the ultimate form of inspiration”] 


드레: 아이들은 영감의 궁극적인 형태예요. 그걸 실망시키면 안 되죠, 성공할 수 있게 나가서 뭐든지 해야죠. 저는 그렇게 생각해요, 왜냐면 적어도 제 자신보다는 더 나은 출발점에 데려다주고 싶으니까요. 아이들은 저를 일으켜줘요. 

I mean, kids are the ultimate form of inspiration. That, you can’t fail. You have to get out and do the fuck you have to do to succeed. At least that’s how I look at it, because you want them to have at least a better springboard than you’ve had, or I’ve had. Kids are inspiring.


Q: 아이들이 “아빠는 무슨 일을 ?”라고 물을 때는요

Like when your kids ask you, “What do you do, Dad?”


드레: 제 아이들은 제가 무슨 일을 하는지 알아요, 그리고 그 일에 대해 할 말도 많은 것 같아요. “이건 좋았는데, 저거는 잘 모르겠어”라고 저한테 말하죠. 다행히도 이제는 집에서 녹음할 수 있는 공간이 생겨서 밖에 나가지 않고 그냥 지하에 가서 제 일을 할 수 있어요. 그리고 제가 정말 고맙게 생각하는 건 제 주변 사람들은 항상 100% 솔직하게 얘기한다는 거예요.  

Well, my kids know what I do, and they have comments about what I do. It’s just like “Yea, that was good, but I don’t know about that.” That’s what happens with me. And fortunately, I’ve been at a place now where I can just record at home so I don’t have to leave. I can just go downstairs and do my thing, and that’s what it is. And everybody around me keeps it 100% honest, and that’s what I love. 

 


아이오빈: 저는 제 첫 아들이 태어났을 때 프로듀싱을 그만뒀어요, 아이가 생겼으니 더 이상 돌아다니기 싫었죠. 그래서 대부분 일을 집에서 했는데, 제 아이들은 드레나 트렌트 레즈 노어 같은 사람들과 저녁을 먹는 거에 익숙해졌어요. 제 일이 집 안으로 들어오게 됐고, 그 아이들은 그걸 잘 받아들여줬고 자연스럽게 제가 무슨 일을 하는지도 알게 됐죠. 그 일을 이해하기도 하고요. 어렸을 때 프로듀싱하는 부분은 보지 못했지만, 그것도 이제는 알아요. 근데 제가 더 중요하게 생각하는 건 제 아이들이 저를 성장시켜줬다는 거에요. 그 아이들을 잘 키우고 올바른 사람으로 자라길 바란다면 어쩔 수 없이 스스로도 성장해야 하는 것 같아요. 조금이라도. 

I quit producing when I had my first son, Jamie. I didn’t want to travel anymore because I had a kid. They advised to bring a lot of my work home with me, so they’d be having dinner with Dre or Trent Reznor, or all these different people. My job led into my home, it just did. It was a great spirit of those kids, and they grew up with that, so they kind of knew what I did; they understood. They didn’t see the producing part, but they now know what that was. But more importantly, my kids, like most kids I hope because if the parent doesn’t grow up there’s going to be a problem, so those kids get you to grow up. And no matter how much you resist, if you want to get it right, if you want your kid to be a proper human being, a citizen, then you got to grow up. At least a bit. 


드레: 이런 일을 하는 사람이라면 어쩔 수 없이 희생해야 되는 것들이 생기는 것 같아요, 스튜디오 안에서 작업을 하는 사람이라면 더욱더. 그래서 균형을 만들고 다들 그걸 이해해 주는 게 가장 중요한 것 같아요. 저는 항상 여기 있었고, 항상 시간을 냈어요. 작업을 제일 많이 하던 때에도 일주일에 5번을 일하되 적어도 나머지 이틀은 시간을 냈어요, 거의 주말마다. 와이프와 아이들로부터 멀어지는 건 원하지 않으니 항상 균형을 만들고 그걸 지켜내려는 노력을 한 것 같아요. 

You have to make certain sacrifices when you’re in these businesses, especially when you’re in the studio and making records, but it really comes down to a balancing act. And everybody has to understand that. I’m here, and I’ve always made time. When I was heavily recording and I would work five days, I would always take at least two days off, usually Saturday and Sunday, but it’s a balancing act because you don’t want to have a disconnect away from your wife and kids. So I always try to maintain that thing. 


아이오빈: 저는 은퇴를 하고 큰 아이들과 함께 일을 하고 있죠. 아직 어린아이들은 집 안에서 시간을 같이 보내려고 노력해요, 저의 입양된 자녀들도 마찬가지로요. 하지만 제 아이들 말고도 저는 교육을 통해 다른 사람들의 아이들과도 함께하고 있어요. 저희가 짓고 있는 학교들을 통해 그들에게 영향과 도움을 줄 수 있도록 정말 많이 노력할 거예요. “우리 이 학교 다녀”라는 말을 할 때 자부심을 느낄 수 있을만한 곳을 만들어줄 거예요. 

Well, I’ve retired now. I’ve retired and I’m working with the kids, the older ones. And the little ones, I’m part of the house and bringing them up. And my step-kids. But, I’m working with my kids and I’m working with other people’s kids through education. We’re building these schools and we are going to really try to influence and help these kids. We are going to try to give them a place to go that they’re proud of when they say “We go to this school.” 


드레: 정말 가고 싶은 곳. 

A place that they really want to go to.


아이오빈: 그리고 흥미로운 곳. 영 아카데미는 정말 재밌는 곳이에요. 그 학교를 다니는 학생 아무한테나 물어봐도 같은 얘기를 할 거예요. 정말 많은 사람들이 반대 의견을 찾으려고 노력했지만, 그 학교에 다니는 학생들은 한결같이 그곳을 사랑한다고 대답해요. 

And make it interesting. And by the way, I mean Young Academy is fun. You can interview any kid at that school, and they will tell you the same thing. Everyone has tried, they go on it every way to get in, and they’ve asked kids in that school and they all love it. 


드레: 그리고 이 아이들이 저한테 질문을 할까 봐 무서울 정도로 너무 똑똑한 아이들이에요. 지미는 매년 학생들을 위해 뒷마당에서 이벤트를 하는데, 저는 거기서 누가 질문을 물어볼까 조마조마해요, ‘아, 제발 아무도 나한테 제곱 근에 대해서 안 물어봤으면 좋겠다’라는 생각을 하면서. 

Let me tell you something, these kids are so smart I’m terrified of them asking me a question. Jimmy has this thing in his backyard for the students every year, and I’m walking around and the kids are coming up asking questions, and I’m like ‘Man, I hope nobody asks me to square root.’


 

[10 달러 가치의 아이디어: “문화는 그렇게 움직이는  아니에요”]

[Making a billion-dollar idea: “That’s not the way culture moves. That’s not the way things move”] 


아이오빈: 10억 달러 거래를 할 생각으로 시작하면 안 돼요, 그게 비밀 요령이에요. 대단한 걸 해야죠. 저희가 헤드폰을 봤을 때, 드레는 항상 자신의 아이들이 작은 공짜 이어폰을 쓰는 걸 보면서 안타까워했어요. 항상 그게 신경 쓰였다고 했죠. 컴퓨터에서 나오는 소리가 신경 쓰였던 거예요, 왜냐면 매일 스튜디오 안에 들어가서 똑같이 하는 일은 좋은 소리를 만들려고 노력하는 거 밖에 없었으니까. 저도 음반 제작부터 시작했으니 그가 무슨 얘기를 하는지 충분히 이해할 수 있었죠. 그러고 나서, “우리가 섹시하게 만들어보면 어떨까?”라는 생각을 했어요. 남들은 “아무도 돈 내고 헤드폰을 사지 않을 거야, 지금 공짜인데”라고 할 때 저희는 아이들이 더 나은 헤드폰을 원하게 될 수도 있다고 생각했죠. 저희는 문화는 그렇게 움직이는 게 아니라고 대답했어요. 문화는 그렇게 움직이지 않아요. 한 가지를 만들든 시리즈로 만들든, 그냥 Beats가 헤드폰이 되는 걸 상상했어요. 그리고 기적이 일어난 거죠. 

Well, you can’t start out thinking that you’ll make it a billion dollar deal. That’s the secret. You got to do something great. When we saw the headphones, Dre was really upset about his kids wearing the phone earbuds and the portable ear buds, the little ones that you get for free. That was really frustrating him. Sound coming out from the computer was frustrating, because he goes in and the only thing in the studio that he does every day the same is try to make it sound great. So I come from recording background as well, so I completely got what he was talking about. And then we said, “What if we made them sexy?” Kids may start wearing them, and that would make them want better headphones, because people tell us “No one’s going to pay for headphones because they get them for free.” And we said that’s not the way culture moves, that’s not the way things move. We were thinking about making one headphone or multiple headphones, but we were thinking about just Beats being a headphone. What it turned into was a miracle. 

 

 

드레: 정확해요. 

Literally. 


아이오빈: 저희는 운도 좋았어요. 그리고 중요한 한 가지는 만약에 드레나 제가 뭔가를 떠올리게 된다면 이제는 나가서 실행으로 옮기는 법을 안다는 거예요. 저희가 Beats를 전화기 줄에 연결하면서 했던 말은 “뭐가 죽을 때까지 기다리지 말고 그냥 나가서 우리가 죽이자”였어요. 그게 Beats였어요. 

We have a lot of luck, and one thing about us is if Dre smells something or if I smell something, now we know to go and get it. What we did with Beats was we were two vultures on a telephone pole, looking around saying “Screw this waiting for something to die, let’s go kill some.” That’s what Beats was. 


 

[소셜 미디어의 진화: “명성이 돈이 되어버린 상황”]

[The evolution of social media: “Fame is what the currency is”]


아이오빈: 인스타그램의 영향력에 대해 잘 몰라요, 그게 뭔지도 모르겠고. 하지만 뭔가 특별한 건 맞아요, 중립적이지도 않고. 만약 마이클 잭슨이 인스타그램을 했더라면, 그는 더 건강했을까요? 그건 아닐 것 같아요. 개인적인 의견이지만, 인스타그램으로 인해서 지금보다 명성이 “훌륭한” 것들을 훨씬 앞서 나간 적은 없었던 것 같아요. 명성이 돈이 되고, 가장 중요한 것이 되어버린 거죠. 그래서 사람들이 매일 노래를 내는 것 같아요, 그게 마케팅이기도 하지만 그 모든 곡들이 훌륭할 수는 없는 거죠. “훌륭하다”라는 기준의 중요성이 많이 밀려있는 것 같아요. 빌리 아일리시도 훌륭하고, 앤더슨 팍도 대단하지만, 그 기준이 명성으로부터 밀린 것 같아요.   

I don’t know the impact of Instagram, I don’t know what it is. It’s something, it’s not neutral. If Michael Jackson had Instagram, would he have ended up healthier? I don’t know. I think Instagram, I hope to say what it is and what it isn’t, but I think what’s happened is “great” was never behind fame as much as it is now. Fame is what the currency is, likes, or whatever the stuff is. That’s why people put music out every day, that’s marketing, but not all of it is great because that’s impossible. I think “great” has pulled back a little bit. Now, Billie Eilish is great, Anderson Paak is great, but I think “great” has pulled back behind fame a little bit. 


드레: 제가 한참 활동할 때라면 소셜 미디어를 싫어했을 것 같아요, 왜냐면 그걸 통해서 신비로움이 많이 깨졌을 테니까요. 음악으로부터 오는 신비로움이 있고 저는 그 신비로움이 좋아요, 기다리는 것도 좋고. 제가 지금 이 순간 어디에 있는지, 뭘 하고 있는지, 이제 뭘 할 건지에 대해 알리고 싶지 않아요. 앞으로 무슨 일이 생길지 기대하고 기다리는 거로부터 오는 즐거움이 있거든요.  

I think I probably would have hated social media when I was coming up because there’s a certain mystique that gets destroyed. I like the mystique, I like waiting. I don’t need anybody to know where I am every minute, or what I’m doing, or what I’m about to do. There’s a certain mystique that came along with music that was entertaining to wait to see what was about to happen.


아이오빈: 늙은 남자들이 하면 안 되는 것들이 몇 개 있어요. 하나는 브이넥 옷을 입는 거고 또 다른 하나는 인스타그램을 하는 거예요.  

Old men do things they shouldn’t do. One of them is wear v-neck t-shirts and the other one is go on Instagram. 


드레: 저도 브이넥 티셔츠 몇 장 있는걸요. 

I got a couple of v-necks, though. 


아이오빈: 그리고 이건 우리 대통령이 증명해 줬죠, 쇼셜 미디어 하면 안 돼요. 

By the way, proven by our president. We shouldn’t go on social network. 


 

[도널드 트럼프: “특이한 사람이에요 정말”] 

[Donald Trump: “He’s a character. He really is”]


아이오빈: 늙은 남자들은 소셜 미디어 하면 안 돼요, 우리 대통령이 좋은 예시잖아요. 그분이 무엇을 하는지 충분히 이해해요, 우리는 그의 일부분만 보고 있는 걸 수도 있으니까. 하지만 복잡한 사건들을 간단하게 얘기하자면 복음주의 기독교도들에게 “낙태 문제를 원하는 데로 해줄게”라는 식으로 기독교의 다양한 면들을 무시했죠. 그리고 극우파들에게는 “이제 황인들은 우리나라에 못 들어오게 막을 거야”라고 했죠. 이런 식으로 공화당 지지자들의 30%를 보장해놓은 상태에요. 하지만 그가 내린 결정들에 감정이 들어가 있을까요? 아무도 모르는 거죠. 그는 정말 낙태에 대해 관심이 있을까요? 저는 아예 모르겠어요. 그가 신경 안 쓴다는 건 아니에요, 저도 그분이 어떤 사람인지 모르니까. 하지만 마케팅을 하는 사람이고 정말 똑똑한 사람인 건 맞아요. 그 부분은 동의해요, 그는 똑똑해요.  

Old men should not go on social networks, and our president is a great example. I understand what he does, and I get it completely. I think what you see is partially who he is, in my take I don’t know, but he wanted evangelical Christians—I’m simplifying a very complicated person and situation—he said “I’m giving you abortion,” so they overlook any side of Christianity that they are monitoring. And he told the extreme right “I’m going to stop brown people from coming into the country.” So now you lock up 30% of the Republican Party, and he’s got a lock on it. Now does he feel those things? I don’t know, I have no idea. Does he care about abortion? I have no idea. I’m not saying he doesn’t, I don’t know this man, but that’s what he did. He’s a marketing guy and he gets it. He’s a smart, smart guy. That’s where I do agree with them, he’s smart. 


드레: 솔직히 말하자면 저는 이런 대화들에 관심이 없어요. 저는 그저 창작을 하고 싶고 예술을 만들고 싶어요.  

I’m not interested in those type of conversations, to be honest with you. I just want to create, I just want to make art.


아이오빈: 지금 당장 대통령이 될만한 사람은 없는 것 같아요, 그를 포함해서. 좋은 일도 몇 개 했지만, 개인적으로 그분이 일을 하는 방식이나 태도를 좋아하지는 않아요. 제 아이들이 그런 것들을 지켜봐야 한다는 것도 싫고요. 특이한 사람이에요, 정말. 저는 복음주의도 아니고 이 상황에 미쳐있는 이상한 사람도 아니에요, 제 가족과 살면서 제 일을 하고 있고, 교육을 통해 기회가 부족했던 아이들을 도와주고 있지만 그 모든 걸 대중의 입장에서 하려고 노력하고 있어요. 저는 정부가 뭘 할 때까지 기다리고 싶지 않아요, 그건 아무리 기다려도 이번 생에는 못 볼 거에요. 그분이 만든 좋은 정책들도 있고, 안 좋은것들도 분명 있어요. 하지만 그 모든 일을 해나가는 방식은 이 나라의 인종에 대한 흐름이나 긴장감을 위태롭게 해요. 우파를 자신의 편으로 만들기 위해 그런 것들을 하지 않았다면 저는 아무 불만 없었을 것 같아요. 헌법, 그런 것도 다 싫지만 인종에 대한 문제는 정말 (이해할 수 없어요). 그리고 제일 무서운 건 그는 이렇게 생각 안 할 수도 있다는 거예요.

Right now, I don’t see anybody out there yet that could be president, including him. Certain things he’s done are good, but I personally don’t like his style, the way he does them. Personally for my kids to see. But the president’s a different thing, he’s a character. He really is. And I’m not some evangelist, I’m not some crazy, psyched up person about this whole thing. I live my life with my family and do my thing, and try to help education and help the underrepresented kids, but I try to do it from the public side. I’m not waiting for the government to do anything, wait for that, you can wait until the fucking rest of your life. There are some policies that he has that I think are great. There are some policies that he has that I think are not great. But how he gets what he wants sometimes jeopardizes the racial flow and tensions in this country. If he stayed away  from that, rather than stoking that to get the right really on his side, then I could deal with it. I hate the constitution stuff and all that, but what he does with race. And the scary part is, I’m not sure he feels that way. 


 

[예술과 사회정의: “예술로 하는 플렉스”] 

[Art and social justice: “That was them flexing their art”]


드레: 아티스트 개개인의 책임이죠. 모든 아티스트들이 그거에 부담을 느끼거나 롤 모델이 되기 위해 노력할 필요는 없다고 생각해요. 그냥 예술을 만들면 되죠. 제 입장에서는 그저 사람들을 기분 좋게 만들고 영감을 주기 위해 노력하는 것 같아요. 그게 제가 예술을 전달하는 방식이고, 남들에게 어떤 정치적 성향을 가지지 아님 어떤 종교를 따를지 강요하는 건 말도 안 되는 것 같아요. 그냥 창작하면서 사람들을 기쁘게 하고 영감을 주고 싶어요. 

It’s only a responsibility for that particular artist. Every artist shouldn’t try to hold that thing or try to be a role model. Just create art. From my perspective, I’m just trying to make people feel good and inspire. That’s my way of delivering my art, I’m not trying to tell you who you should represent politically or which religion you should be involved in, I think that’s nonsense. I just want to create art and make people happy and inspire.


아이오빈: 저는 아티스트들이 사회정의에 대해 얘기하는 걸 아주 중요하게 생각해요. 제가 항상 좋아하던 것들이에요. 드레가 한 얘기도 맞아요, 아티스트 마음대로 하는 거죠. 하지만 인스타그램 스폰서를 잃고 싶지 않다거나 지금 나라가 많이 갈려있는 상황 속에서 버니 샌더스의 지지자들과 진보주의 시민들, 혹은 트럼프와 우파들을 화나게 하고 싶지 않아서 어떤 결정을 내리는 건 아닌 것 같아요. 닐 영이 Ohio 통해서 켄트 스테이트 학생들이 총에 맞은 이야기를 꺼냈을  그는 인스타그램 협찬 생각을 했을  같으세요다음  어떤 일이 일어나든 신경  썼을 거에요 딜런과 마빈 게이도 마찬가지고제임스 브라운의 I’m Black and I’m Proud 그런 것들을 신경 쓰지 않았어요 그런 것들이 좋아요.   

I really care about artists reflecting social injustice and what’s going on in the world. Those are the thoughts that I always loved. Dre’s right, whatever an artist feels. But if he or she feels it because she doesn’t want to piss off the sponsor from Instagram or because the country is so divided they don’t want to piss off Bernie Sanders people and the liberal or they don’t want to piss of the right with Trump, then that’s no reason not to do it. When Neil Young did Ohio when they killed those kids at Kent State, you think he was thinking about his sponsor on Instagram? He didn’t care what happened the next day. Bob Dylan didn’t care, Marvin Gaye didn’t care. James Brown, I’m Black and I’m Proud, didn’t care. So that’s what I like. 

 

[Ohio]: 

 

드레: 그들만의 예술로 플렉스를  거죠

That was them flexing their art. 


아이오빈: 그리고 그들은 두려워하지 않았어요. 하지만 요즘 사람들은 그런 반응을 두려워하거나 사회에 대한 관심이 없어진 걸까요? 잘 모르겠어요. 

But they weren’t afraid. They weren’t afraid, and what I’m implying is are some of these people afraid, or did it completely go out of society? I don’t know. 



 

[유산 남기기: “그저 영감을 주면서 영감을 받고 싶어요”]

[Leaving a legacy: “I just want to inspire and be inspired”]


드레: 인터뷰 내내 얘기한 것 같은데, 저는 그저 영감을 주면서 영감을 받고 싶어요. 제가 남기고 싶은 건 저와 비슷한 상황에서 자라고 있는 아이들이 저를 보면서 나도 할 수 있다는 생각을 하게 해주는 거에요. 제 가치는 그들보다 더 중요하지 않아요, 내가 할 수 있으면 너도 할 수 있어. 저는 남들보다 뛰어나다고 생각하지 않아요, 저보다 훨씬 실력이 좋은 프로듀서들과 음악인들이 많고 저와 같은 투지를 갖고 한다면 나아가서 저보다 더 크고 대단한 일들을 해낼 수 있을 거라 믿어요. 지금도 충분히 제2의 닥터 드레와 지미 아이오빈이 될만한 사람들이 많을 거에요, 나와서 저희보다 훌륭한 일, 저희는 생각도 못한 일을 할만한 사람들. 그래서 제 유산은 그게 됐으면 좋겠네요.   

I think I've been talking about it throughout this interview. I just want to inspire and be inspired. The thing that I’d like to leave is kids to look up to me that grew up in similar places and say that I can do that as well. My ice is no colder than yours. If I can do it, you can do it, that’s my thing. I don’t think I’m better than anybody, I feel like there are producers and musicians out there that are much better than me that if they have the same drive, they can do even bigger and better things that I’ve done in my career. There are some kids right now that could be the next Dr. Dre or Jimmy Iovine that can come out and do some amazing things that we would have never even thought about. So I guess that’s what I would like my legacy to be. 


아이오빈: 하나만 골라야 한다면, 유색인종의 사람들과 백인들이 동일하게 진정한 파트너로서 일을 한다면 더 나은 세상이 될 것 같아요. 더 아름다운 세상이 되겠죠, 더 감동적이고. 왜냐면 다른 두 문화가 서로에게 제공해 줄 수 있는 것들이 너무 많아요. 먼 꿈만 같기도 한데, 그게 저와 드레가 이뤄낸 일이에요, 어린아이들에게 증명해준 일이고. 항상 듣는 얘기지만, 저한테는 이 사실이 가장 중요해요.

If I had to pick one, I would say if people of color and white people work together truly as equals and as partners, the world would be a better place. It’ll be more beautiful, it’ll be more soulful, it’ll be just better because what the two cultures offer each other. That’s a big dream, but that’s what I think Dre and I did, and that’s what we proved to a lot of young people. I hear it all the time, and that’s important to me. 


드레: 들어봐요, 저희는 그게 가능하다고 증명할 수 있는 살아있는 증거에요. 믿어봐요. 저희는 행복하고, 전설적인 사람들이에요.  

Listen, we are living proof that this thing right here can work. Trust me. We are happy, and we be legendary shit.


아이오빈: 맞아요, 저희 둘 다 인종 문제가 많던 동네에서 자랐어요. 저는 이탈리안 동네에서 왔고, 드레는 처음 본 백인들은 경찰밖에 없었던 컴튼에서 왔어요. 저희는 (이게 가능하다고) 정말 믿고, 지금도 많은 사람들이 더 나은 인종에 관한 대화를 만들어내려고 노력하고 있다고 믿어요. 그리고 흑인의 경제적 불평등도 해결해 나가야 할 문제이죠. 

That’s right, we both came from racially challenged neighborhoods. I came from all Italians neighborhood and Dre came from Compton where the first white people he met were cops. We really believe in that, and I know a lot of great people right now that are really focused on making this a better place in racial communication. And the economic injustice of the African American, that’s got to be dealt with. 


 

[교육의 미래: “기회가 없이 자라온 아이들에게 주는 기회”]

[The future of education: “We want to give underrepresented kids an edge”]


드레: 저희 아카데미를 졸업하고 나아갈 아이들 중 한 명이 세상을 바꿀 가능성이 있다는 게 벌써 신나요. 그게 제일 신기한 것 같아요. 

The thing that excites me is we know that one of the kids that comes out of our academy has the potential to go on and do something to change the world. That’s the thing that’s the most interesting to me. 


아이오빈: 곧 고등학교도 문을 열거에요, USC 바로 옆에서 시작되고 있고 그 동네를 위한 무료 시설이에요. 로린 잡스와 XQ, 그리고 USC까지 함께하고 있어요. 그리고 그 학교를 졸업하는 아이들은 남들보다 유리한 점이 있을 거예요, 지금까지 기회가 없이 자라온 아이들에게 기회를 주고 싶었거든요. 아무도 고등학교는 홍보하지 않아요, 왜냐면 할 이유도 없고 갖고 있는 것도 없으니까. 그래서 많은 아이들이 필요성을 못 느껴요, “이걸 왜 하고 있지? 정말 이런 것도 내가 알아야 하나?”라는 생각을 하게 되고. 

We are also starting a high school, and we’re starting it right outside of USC, it’s for that neighborhood and it’s free. And we’re doing it with Laurene Jobs and XQ and USC. And whoever goes to that school in high school is going to have an advantage when they come out. We want to give underrepresented kids an edge because no one markets high school. And the reason why they don’t market high schools is they don’t have anything to market. So a lot of kids today think it’s not really necessary, “Why am I doing this? Do I really need to know about this and that?” 

 

 

드레: 그걸 넘어서 대부분 증오하죠. 저도 학교를 좋아한 적이 없지만, 그 공간이 만들어내는 가능성들은 이해해요. 저는 다행히도 학력 없이 인생을 잘 살고 커리어를 만들어낼 수 있었어요. 처음에는 수학이랑 독서 같은 것들이 재밌었지만, 나중에는 배우고 싶은 게 하나도 없었어요, 저는 아티스트이니까. 그리고 컴튼에 있는 제 고등학교에는 그런 시설들이 하나도 없었어요. 지금 저희가 짓고 있는 곳은 제가 옛날에 필요했던 모든 걸 갖고 있죠.    

Not only that, most of them hate it. For me, the worst to come to mind is I never liked school, but I understand the possibilities that it can create. So fortunately for me, I was able to build a life and a career without it. There was nothing there that I really wanted to learn, at first I wanted to learn math and reading and all that, but I’m an artist. And in Compton, in my particular high school, there was nothing there available. This thing that we’re building has everything that I needed. 


아이오빈: 저는 고등학교의 모든 순간을 싫어했어요. 좋았던 순간이 하나도 없어요, 단 1분도. 저는 가톨릭 남자 고등학교를 다녔는데, 정말 단 1초도 좋지 않았어요. 고등학교도 이렇게 싫었는데 당연히 베트남도 싫을게 뻔해서 대학을 가야 했지만, 좋은 배치를 받고 학교를 떠날 수 있었어요. 정말 학교에 있었던 모든 순간이 싫었어요. 

I hated every second of high school. There wasn’t one minute that I liked, not one minute. I went to an all-boys Catholic high school, and I hated every second of it. And then I had to go to college because I knew if I hated high school, I was really going to hate Vietnam. Then I got a good number in the draft and was able to leave school and go work in the recording studio, but I hated every minute of school. 


드레: 저는 대학을 2주 동안 다녔어요. 근데 그것마저도 길게 느껴지더라고요. 하지만 대부분의 사람들에게 필요한 것 같아요. 이 아이들은 가서 정말, 정말 대단한 것들을 이뤄낼 수 있고 그 과정에 제가 있을 수 있다는 게 기뻐요. 

I went to college for two weeks. And I feel like that was too long. But I do feel like it’s necessary and for most, it’s necessary. These kids can go in and do some really, really amazing things and I’m glad to be a part of that.


아이오빈: 아이들은 희망을 원하는 것 같아요. 하루 종일 인스타그램에 학교를 자퇴하고 엄청난 부자가 된 마크 저커버그에 대한 얘기만 보니까요. 밀레니얼들은 희망을 원하는 것 같아요, 자기들도 기회가 있다는 희망. 그래서 기회를 만들어주는 교육으로 다가가야 해요.  

I think kids want hope. All they see all day is on Instagram and Mark Zuckerberg left school and became a trillionaire, and all this other stuff. So they want hope, they want a shot at the ring, that’s what millennials want. So the way to approach that is first to give them an education where they have a shot at the ring. 


 

[트로피와 시상식: “어제의 성공을 반복하는  말고 내일이 저를 자극해요”]

[Trophies and award ceremonies: “Tomorrow excites me. Not a victory lap of yesterday”] 


아이오빈: 트로피를 누가 가져갔는지 뭐가 중요해요. 그래미는 그저 트로피가 있는 티비 프로그램일 뿐이에요. 그거뿐이고, 그거뿐이었고, 누군가 뭘 다르게 하지 않는 이상 항상 그거뿐일 거에요. 

Who gives a fuck who made the trophy. The Grammys are a TV show with trophies. That’s what is is, that’s what it was, unless somebody does something else, it will always be. 


드레: 사실 시상식도 아니었죠.

It wasn’t even an award show.


아이오빈: 다들 신나하고, 아이들도 그래미에 대해 관심을 갖고, 그냥 그런 거죠, 무슨 상관이에요. 근데 그게 문제가 아닌 것 같아요. 영감을 주는 것들도 있고, 줘야 하는 것들도 있지만 저는 항상 트로피에 집착한 적은 없어요. 어제의 성공을 반복하는 것 말고 내일이 저를 자극해요.

Who cares, everybody gets excited about it, the kids get excited about winning a Grammy, that’s all cool. But I don’t think that’s where ether issue is. I think it’s important and I do think there are things that influence and that should influence, but I was never a big trophy guy. Tomorrow excites me. Not a victory lap of yesterday. 


드레: 여기서 끝내시죠, 좋은 말이네요.

You should end it on that, that was good. 

 

 

-- 

[Interview by]: Jonathan Heaf

[Source]: British GQ

[Translation by]: HIPHOPPLAYA 이승연 (lsy@hiphopplaya.com)

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2020-07-26 10:09:15

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